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Xairos Systems with David Mitlyng

Join Tim and David in this chat about Xairos Systems and how they are revolutionizing Position, Navigation, and Timing.

David Mitlyng is the CEO of Xairos, a startup building a global timing service to expand beyond GPS. David has three decades of experience in the space industry, including Hughes Space and Communications, Orbital, Maxar, and BridgeComm. David has a BS in Aeronautical Engineering from Cal Poly SLO, a MS in Aeronautics and Astronautics from Stanford University, and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management.

See more about what Xairos is doing:

Full Transcript:

Tim Chrisman: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another edition of Podcast for the Future. I'm your host, Tim Chrisman. Today I'm joined by David Mitlyng, the C E O of Xairos, a startup that's building a global timing service to expand beyond and back up G P s. David has over three decades of experience in the space industry, including with giants like Hughes Space orbital Maxar and bridge com.

And more recently has experience with a number of startups doing a variety of different things. David as a bachelor's from Cal Poly masters in aeronautics from Stanford, and an M B A from m i t. So I'm excited to hear more from David. So let's go right to it.[00:01:00]

David Mitlyng: [00:02:00] Hi,

Tim Chrisman: Tim. Hey David.

David Mitlyng: How are you? Awesome. Doing great.

Tim Chrisman: Great. I'm excited to chat more with you today. I've heard heard a bit about Xairos yeah. Xairos Xs. Okay.

Yeah. So it's, this is a, pretty casual format. The idea is just have a conversation and really try to get at what is that challenge that you, that's worth doing?

What is that thing that you know is worth getting up in the morning for you? And part of the idea is with an eye towards. [00:03:00] Anybody can do this stuff. This isn't, people don't go to school for 40 years and then magically get here. Yeah. Everybody's sticking their finger in light sockets, trying to figure this out as we go.

And listener in your mid forties, mid-career transition, yes. We need you to come on. So that's the eye towards things where

David Mitlyng: yeah I agree with you. This is and you, to your point, I we live in exciting times. It's definitely very dynamic in the space industry and definitely what we're doing.

So yeah, happy to tell you a little bit more about it. At the very least, it'll be, should be fairly interesting to the typical

Tim Chrisman: listener. Yeah. Yeah. No. And so yeah, we can just jump right in and I'll go on the backside and add your your bio. It's always weird reading the bio while I'm staring at somebody.

David Mitlyng: No. I agree. Yeah,

Tim Chrisman: That's great. Cool. All righty. Then then yeah, no. Let's let's just start, what got you here? Your. This isn't your [00:04:00] first job. For those on audio David is the stereotypical wise aerospace, vaguely smart looking person. .

David Mitlyng: So yeah, very vaguely smart looking.

Yeah, the, my journey was I started off in old space working at very large satellite manufac. Huge space communication, which became Boeing Orbital. Yeah. Ssl, which is now Maxar, so working in very large complex geo communication satellites and, once the kind of the new Space Revolution hit.

I got the bug went, got my MBA in 2015, and did whatever he does when they get an mba, they go to a startup. Yes. So I was employee number one at a startup that was commercializing optical communications for satellites called bridge com. Oh. It's while there that I learned about this current technology, which is quantum Communications.

Yeah. And ended up founding my current company with my co-founder. Who had some very interesting, he's a quantum scientist and he had some very interesting technology. To your question, to your [00:05:00] point, it's one of those things where I really enjoyed working for kind of the large defense prime type companies, but, in innovation and moving at a different pace really only happens when you can, chart your own destiny and go to a company that can leverage that technology and actually use it in a meaningful.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. No, and it's there, there's lots of people who think, outta college, I want to go be the next Jeff Bezos, , Elon Musk, whatever it is.

Yeah. And like I want to be a billionaire when I grow up. Cool. Great. But there's something categorically different from coming from a Hughes, from an SSL and say, and then going and saying, look, I think we can do this better, faster, cheaper, different at a startup. Like the the number of times you have to break things before they work is astronomically different.

That had to, it's a culture shock, but that had to be, a very different experience [00:06:00] for.

David Mitlyng: Yeah, and definitely both me and my co-founder we've come with multiple decades of experie. He comes from a little bit different background in the sense that he came from large defense research labs.

Okay. Which is a little bit more kind of academia research labs. But again, we're both, we are both fundamentally a bit frustrated with the pace that large companies, large research labs move. Yeah. And to your point our team is a nice mix. Young brilliant postdocs and fresh outs that, really want to get into the space startup environment.

As well as, a couple of us grizzled veterans that, eh, we're you know maybe we felt like we've been in the matrix a little bit too long. But the reality is we got that nice mix of experience. Yeah. And the scars that come a bit with, working in that environment, understanding what it takes to do business in that environ.

And at least for me, this is my third startup, so I got a little bit of that startup experience too. I got a little bit of comfort level in both

Tim Chrisman: realms. Wow. That's fair. That's fair. And I'm told third time's the charm .

David Mitlyng: Yeah. And my [00:07:00] previous two startups I was a very early employee, but not a founder, and they're both doing very well, so very happy with them and the team, and I still have a good relationship with both.

Nice. But it's but there, there is something else altogether then when you're a founder, a co-founder of a company, and. Have to make decisions on a second by second date, basis just to get things moving.

Tim Chrisman: So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. No that's very true. There is something categorically different about being the one versus being one of yeah.

It it really messes with your sleep. Sometimes .

David Mitlyng: Yeah I give my co-founder a little bit of grief every once in a while cuz he's doing the fun stuff. Yes. He's doing the research. He's working with the technology, writing the algorithms, writing papers and researching papers. And I feel like I'm more, 90% what I do day in and day out is admin stuff.

. But, that's the roles we're taking. Yeah. Frankly, he's smarter than me so that he does, he

Tim Chrisman: should be doing that work anyway. Okay. That works. I, my, I, my goal is to always find people smarter than me. Yeah. Cuz it just makes life easier [00:08:00] for me. Yeah, exactly. I was the weird kid growing up, breeding, dober, learning to work smarter, not harder.

And I figured out, I should make other people work smarter and then I don't have to work . There you go.

David Mitlyng: There you. Yeah. I like that. That's a great philosophy.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. So you know what is it that Xeros does? You know what this is not something that's normally. Talked about,

David Mitlyng: thought about.

Yeah. So we have a fairly interesting technology that was invented by a co-founder that we call quantum Clock Synchronization. Okay.

Tim Chrisman: Sounds super easy to understand.

David Mitlyng: super easy. Just that's the basic stuff. I like to explain it because, you hear the word quantum. Yep. Al already people start to mentally shut down, but essentially the technology is using a laser Correct.

And. Unlike normal optical communications where, you're, you take a laser and you pulse it on and off to get your zeros and ones to get your bits. Yeah. All quantum communications relies on a fairly weak laser where you're manipulating the [00:09:00] individual quantum properties of the focons.

And when you do that the value of that the quantum photons, if I send a signal to you, I send those photons to you. Any man in the middle that intercepts a photon meant for you will break the quantum properties and then we will both know it. And it's created a bit of a stir, a bit of a revolution in how we view secure communications because yeah.

No, at least as far as I know there's no other type of communication out there that allows the sender and receiver to know for sure there's an eased dropper, a hacker in the middle that's there intercepting what's meant for you. So it's ex interesting technology.

One thing I do have to point out to is it's relatively it takes ave advantage of hardware that's relatively off the shelf oh, wow. Really? Yep. Yes.

Tim Chrisman: Oh no. This is that sort of communication security is what people have been looking for.

Probably as long as we've been [00:10:00] able to communicate,

David Mitlyng: Oh, absolutely. Definitely within the groups and agencies this is a very keen interest because, having that ability to, that secure link it's it, but we're also seeing some value in the commercial world too, to be honest.

Oh, sure. Yeah. Especially with my, my co-founder invented this technology. He wrote some papers on it in 2018 patented it, and we formed the company around this in 2019. And since then, we've been looking at how we can use this technology within a larger p and t architecture. An architecture that essentially picks up where GPS stops.

Yeah. Yeah. And develops some new secure p and t capabilities. Resilient p and t. But also a level of accuracy that G p s just can't can't achieve. Yeah. So that's where we're focusing a lot of our energy in the last couple

Tim Chrisman: years. Okay. And for people who are listening who don't know p and t, so that's positioning, navigation, and timing.

Correct. Where you're, as you spelled it up Yep. Where you are, where you're going and when you are. [00:11:00] Yep, exactly. I think I usually know when I am. Is that like the, is that the iron triangle where you can only know two out of the three?

David Mitlyng: Yeah. If, if you really wanna get down the rabbit hole of, general relativity and space time this is what the physicists are obsessing over is the fact that you don't know you need time to know your position.

And conversely I guess you don't need to know your position to know time, but they're all interrelated, right? That's fabric and so forth. Again, this is, we're going after practice systems. We're not going after the metaphysical physics philosophy,

Tim Chrisman: so well, and what is it about this, like this secure quantum link that helps with that navigation and.

David Mitlyng: So we're looking at putting this so our system is essentially an optical link, but a very secure optical link. So it works across free space, it works across fiber. And more importantly, where we of see the most value in a, in an architecture Yeah. Is it works across satellites. Okay.

So when you look at a [00:12:00] network, a time distribution network most people don't really think too much about like, where the value of having an accurate time for your electronics, for your networks or your communication systems, but all that time that's on your cell phone, on your laptops comes from one place g p s.

And if g p s was ever disrupted, heaven forbid yeah. Okay. So you'd lose your position signal on your location app, but over time you'd find that, financial networks will go down, the ATM would go offline. Yeah. You won't be able to use your credit card. . And then in time, you'd lose both communications and eventually power, cuz even the power grids rely on that timing from g p s.

Yeah. Yeah. So the secure piece of it is, that's a little scary when you think about that, this one satellite system, but the very weak RF signal. Underpins everything with our modern life. Yeah. And so we're looking at an architecture system [00:13:00] that creates a bit of resiliency to ensure that, hey, look we don't have to worry so much about the system, being jammed with a hundred dollars yeah.

eBay receiver GPS jammer.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. No. And that makes sense that there would be a clear commercial case for a lot of these big banks Yes. Infrastructure providers to have this as a backup. Yes. Like at the very least, you just have this, you keep it in the, back corner always

David Mitlyng: on. Yes, absolutely.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that's where we're finding a lot of our initial commercial interests is again, this is one other thing that's not very well known to the general public, but there's actually a lot of p and t organizations. Timing and synchronization conferences. A multi-billion dollar market for.

Timing and synchronization units, and this is a very common major problem that's discussed at length within those groups. Yeah. So we're coming in to, try to evolve, provide a very robust system that can

Tim Chrisman: entrust that problem. [00:14:00] And there's a lot of research has been done about, the value of g p s and, the cost of disruption.

And these are numbers that like smack people in the face of every day g p s was, would be down, is like a billion dollars. And I think that's fairly conservative. Considering some things it's gonna cost that much just to restart your power plant. Yes. It's been melted or something. But that's a huge addressable market.

Oh, yes.

David Mitlyng: Yeah. I agreed. And when we started positioning our company and talking about, what we offer we do highlight the security and the resiliency. Piece of it. But we also like to highlight too, what the accuracy, so we can offer roughly three orders of magnitude, better time accuracy than gps.

So we also like to highlight too what that enables. Okay. And just fundamentally it comes down to, telecommunication networks that can run more efficiently. Data centers can, save billions of dollars by running more efficiently with better synchronization. And power grids.

They don't really need the accuracy, but definitely the resiliency and [00:15:00] uptime is Yeah. Is incredibly valuable. Tho those studies that say, Hey, it's gonna be a billion dollars a day if G P S goes down. I agree. I really feel like that underestimates how disruptive that would be for modern society. Yeah.

If the internet and cell phone networks went down for a day, what does that cost? , right? I just feel like that's gonna be the society disruptions will be much more than a billion dollars a day, but that's, maybe it's all good. We get off our internet and cell phones for a few days.

I don't

Tim Chrisman: know. Yeah, but yeah, my wife and I were just joking about this. Yesterday there was a outlook outage. And there's this level of. Tech problems where it's annoying and or frustrating where you're like, Hey, I, it's so close, so hard. Yeah. And then it's when it's off, you're like yep.

Nothing can be done. Nothing to do. Yeah, the internet turns off, nobody's working, nobody cares. They're just like, okay. The entire economic output of white collar world is done for the [00:16:00] day. .

David Mitlyng: Yeah. And there've been papers that, that kind of outline, the Department of Homeland Security is identified, 16 areas of what they call critical infrastructure.

Yeah. And GPS touches 13 of those 16 areas. Fortunately for us, g p s has been a very resilient system. It's had some close calls, but never been down for an extended period. And it just, it everything would grind to a halt. Yeah. It really would be us, we're back in candlelight and we're one step away from living in caves.

If G P s was out for an extended period of time, yeah. You don't, okay. So it's a billion dollars a day, but yeah, I dunno. , yeah. Billion

Tim Chrisman: and a cave yes. No, and I, other than, so I've, one of the things on past lifes was planning on how to operate in g s denied environments.

Not a fun thing to do, by the way. , there was lots of alternatives talked about that. Hey, okay we can do, use cell towers or [00:17:00] automatic scanning of the night sky and all this other stuff. Very annoying. It seemed to stand up what you all are doing. It seems a elegantly simple in terms of like similarity to GPS Maine but has the benefit of.

Not being a government lowest bidder, situ.

David Mitlyng: Yeah, no, that, that is a good point. We're looking at building a organic design essentially starting with a blank sheet of paper saying, Hey, yeah, this is what the market needs. And so we're getting a good sense of that.

Yeah. And just how we scale up to that. So one of the things we like about this too is we don't need a constellation of satellites to provide that initial time distribution, one satellite and a neo or geo, or. Can synchronize all the continental United States, for example. Yeah. And we expand out from there.

So one of the areas we're looking at now too is also urban environments. Yep. Yep. There's a big, there's a lot of development going on in putting in [00:18:00] what they call the last 500 feet Yeah. Of, of position in navigation signals. And this is essentially just a position in navigation signal over your cell tower.

In urban environments where the signal strength is a lot higher. There's a lot more salt towers and base stations. Yeah. And you can triangulate your position very accurately. Yep. In an area where GPS suffers because of the blockage. Yeah. Yeah. High buildings. But those base stations and salt towers need to be very accurately synchronized.

Yeah. And so this is, again, this is how we can scale our system out. To provide that level of resilient, accurate synchronization, then that enables, the this fantastic future of, self-driving cars and drones that are delivering pizzas to your door.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. No. And I am all for that. I am very polite to my Alexa devices so that they keep me as a pet when yes, they're, when they're doing everything else for me. Yeah. We, the general public, like fixate on these [00:19:00] self-driving cars, for instance. Sure. But what y'all are building is that vital backbone that helps ensure it's possible.

Yes. And I think it's fantastic this sort of stuff. But how did you think of it? How did you get into it? This isn't front of mind, most of the. Look,

David Mitlyng: like I said we started with the technology and this technology fundamentally is just it's synchronizing two distant objects, right?

And we, like I said, spent a lot of time in the last year going to conferences, going to meet customers, customer discovery at Space Quantum. and these timing conferences. , and that was where the, it became very evident that this is the problem that needs to be solved. . So we started with a system architecture, moving this technology to solve this major problem.

Yeah. You mentioned before, you've worked before on, hey, setting up networks for GPS denied environ. That was one of the kinda the customer bases we spent some time with, , we went through an Air Force [00:20:00] sponsored accelerator. Yeah. We got some, air Force in nasa, S B A R type contracts, small business innovation research type contracts.

And that's when we first started to look at how we could. Pro, build something out that provides that resiliency in a GPS denied environment. Yeah. And then, hey, something that's even more of a global reach in global scale. Yeah. Right now, we're, one of our early hypothesis and now we're fairly confident that we're confirming is, we want to build a global timing network that synchronizes every point on the globe to within 10 picosecond.

And so this is the design we're going toward. And with the idea that we can scale up to that, we don't need to, like I said, launch a, multi-billion dollar constellation of satellites to get there. It's just we just grow incrementally till, one day we wake up and every point in the earth is synchronized to that level of democracy.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no, that's that's cool. I still don't know [00:21:00] what a picosecond is, but I'm sure it's important. .

David Mitlyng: Yeah, I know. It's hard to wrap your mind around that, right? Because yeah. In our world, picosecond, what does that, it's if you're measuring anything to the picosecond, but you do have to think that like in the digital domain, the digital world bits frustra trading.

Oh yeah. Bits are flying around at much higher speeds than that. Yeah. We're trapped in a little physical world, but at that kind of digital world, it's having, the difference between, 30, 40 nanoseconds, which is where GPS can get you with very good equipment to sub nanosecond.

Down to the picosecond level is just all that much more efficiency in your networks, your ability. And the other thing that, that we always like to point out too is you know what a nanosecond at the speed of light is, equivalent a few meters, but if you get the, if you get down to a picosecond, now you're like a width of a quarter.

Oh, wow. The other way to think about it too is, That accuracy means a lot at the speed of light. Yeah. Because you, you can travel long ways in an nanosecond yeah. Certain. A millisecond. [00:22:00] But Yeah. That's why you want to get, that, that little bit of accuracy is gonna maybe get you a bit better resolution on your position.


Tim Chrisman: Estimate. No, that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. Wow. And you've been working. Most of your career, if not all of it. And so in some, somebody looking at maybe your resume or your schooling would say, okay, of course he's still working space stuff, but this seems like it's more than just that.

Yeah, it seems like it's beyond just the standard aeronautics engineering or yeah, it's.

David Mitlyng: Yeah. No. Agreed. Yeah. I still I like satellites. I don't work. Look, working on space systems. A common question I get a lot with groups we work with is, Hey, do you, are you guys looking to build your own satellite?

And I say, no, we can, if I've learned anything, building satellites is let other people build it. Yeah. We'll build the payload system that will go on your satellite . And then you launch it, get it on orbit. Yeah. Yeah. We'll piggyback and we're along for the ride. . For my career I'd consider myself more of a system engineer.

. Okay. [00:23:00] Cause every satellite I've ever worked on or ever built is a very complicated system. Yeah. First and foremost, because you do have the satellite, you do have the ground network, you have the ground terminals and you gotta have that system mindset to. Get these on orbit functioning for many years.

In many decades. Yeah. That I try to bring that kind of system engineering approach to what we're building as a company. Start with the problem, get the requirements, and then build them system architecture to address that rather than Yeah. Where other, where there are people maybe.

When you're a hammer, the whole world's a nail. And no, we're , we gotta design something organically based off of what meets the needs.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. No, that makes sense. No, and that's, that's a novel idea for the space sector is like building this based on customer need.

I. Oh, hey, we've got this school bus size satellite that we built. I sure hope you need it. Yes, .

David Mitlyng: Yeah. Yeah. lot of my work in kinda the space, the [00:24:00] satellite companies was, I'd have to go out and talk to satellite operators and yeah. Convince 'em that, hey, my, like I said, my school size bus, bus is what you need.

And I'll say I really don't need that . That was my job to convince him the other way around. But that's again, as a space, like everything else in life is a part of a total network. Yeah. And I, I think more and more kind of companies are coming to that realization.

You've probably seen that in the news, starlink announced they're connecting with T-Mobile Yep. And Apples connecting with Global Star. So more and more all we're trying to do with a future GPS is, you know what, it's gonna be a mix of space and terrestrial.

Yeah. And, last mile cell and end. Yeah. That's really the architecture that you would design from a, a blank sheet of.

Tim Chrisman: It's true. And it sounds best case five, 10 years from now, there's not necessarily a consumer, mobile handset version that's able to receive your signal.

Or is there. No.

David Mitlyng: So we're looking at no, absolutely correct. Your [00:25:00] handset, your car will be connected to a cell. It'll be connected to them, right? The and there'll be a p and t position in navigation carrier. On that cell single. Yeah. So in parallel with the quantum work we're doing, this is also something we're developing primarily just licensing technology that other research labs have developed.

Oh. And again, it's part of this holistic architecture that says, Hey when you're out driving in the middle of the countryside, yeah, on the freeway, you're gonna link to that satellite network above you. But then when you go into the city, you know you're gonna seamlessly connect. The, dozens of Yeah.

Cell towers and potentially wifi signals on local buildings around you. And they're gonna give you that accurate that extra accurate positioning. When your handset people, you've probably seen this when you're, maybe you're indoors and , try to look at your location app and.

I'm three blocks away. Or maybe you're, you're out jogging or whatever and it's kinda ah, it's really gonna get very me off course here. Yeah. Because that's gonna change, right? It's [00:26:00] gonna have that seamless thing where the more urban you get even indoors you're gonna know your location like very accurately.

Even sitting in the, the basement of a parking garage at a, in a, at a large building.

Tim Chrisman: No I'm already at the point where I'm like, I have no patience if my car phone's I don't know where you're at anymore. I'm like, no, screw you. You have So phones hitting this

David Mitlyng: Yeah. Yeah. There was a very interesting NASA p and t workshop a couple weeks ago that they presented a lot of ideas. Again, vehicles not only just going in urban areas, but also the, what they're calling automated air mobility. Which is, just code for delivery drones and delivery robots and flying taxis.

And this, it's very well understood that this is, you need to get that accuracy level up. If you rely on gps, they're gonna be smashing into each other, into buildings. So we need to get.

Tim Chrisman: I'm told that's not good for repeat customers. If your drone delivery runs into your [00:27:00] door,

David Mitlyng: Yeah, no. Or delivers Been to a house two blocks down.

Yeah, exactly.

Tim Chrisman: Yeah. Yeah, no I can, I'm okay waiting an extra year or two if that's what it takes. . Yes.

David Mitlyng: Yeah, we'll do it. And It's again, everybody talks about the, this future, like drama where things be delivered. I look at it just even from the, the ability to reduce traffic even on Oh yeah.

On kind of these major urban environments. It really will be a game changer for our day-to-day lives. But, and there are groups working on that. Nasa, I had a whole workshop and they had some great presentations, but again, every presentation, they all said the same thing. How'd you synchronize your beacons?

And they said we were we gotta figure that out. So we have a pretty good the problem we're gonna try

Tim Chrisman: to solve. Yeah, no, it sounds like it. So yeah, what's, what's coming up for you all? What's what's gonna be big this. This year

David Mitlyng: We're, we've finished a concept last year.

We got a, we did a little bit of a fundraise last year. We got a bit of money, so we did the built to proof of concept. We're now doing a start engine [00:28:00] raise to raise a bit more funding. Okay. So if anybody's interested in, we're doing, please check out our campaign page on Start engine. We're looking to use that funding to know, take that proof of concept, which is just a tabletop.

Set up two nodes, small airlink. Yeah. And move it into a, what we're calling a and I don't know, this is like a, the, all the rage within the government and commercial world is having these quantum and p and t test beds where we could take our system and deploy it in a controlled hangar like environment and actually test our system.

Drones and some vehicles in quantum networks over dark fiber. So that's a big goal for us this year is to build that test bed and start deploying 'em. In these kind of environments, it's gonna be it's a nice way to bridge and get some funding Yeah. Before we start installing them works.

So that's the big goal for 2023.

Tim Chrisman: Okay. [00:29:00] Nice. And so far a lot of the funding you've done is, outside the traditional VC cycle of go doing the circuit and begging VCs for for money and then rates and repeat every year for the rest of your

David Mitlyng: life. Yeah. We've had, we've actually done, got raised money with VCs.

We raised money with. Been successful with both. So we've had investment from break off Capital Cubit's Ventures. Okay. And groups like that. We also had, we also went through the Techstars program, got investment from Techstars. So we, but we, what we found is as part of that, when we were doing that fundraising, talking to normal, VC investors is we also got very good attraction.

Very good attraction from angels. Yeah. Yeah. . That's where kind of dawned on us that, hey, look, there's a lot of enthusiasm with groups that understand the problem we're trying to solve. . So with any investor that we're talking to, whether it's a VC or an angel or a family office we try to target groups that [00:30:00] understand what we're the value of what we're building.

Yeah. You start with that and then the investments flowed and flowed well. . That's the approach we've taken and it's, done those very well. Okay.

Tim Chrisman: That's good. No, that's cool because I see with a lot of startup founders, it's like this all or nothing. And so it's cool to see you all leveraging this mutual fund slash approach to to it.

So I think it's. Yeah,

David Mitlyng: I agree. This is especially like I'm compare like our fundraising cause I did the seed in series A with my previous two startups. Yeah. It's nice to have a few different options out there as a startup kind of going through this and again, Because, depending on where we are as a company, where we're positioned there's different investor groups that we can talk to.

So as part of what we're building now, then we're gonna leverage some interested strategic investors, potential strategic large companies that say, Hey, we wanna work with you on developing this and taking this out to the world. Yeah. I'll all, there's a lot of [00:31:00] options out there and it's, that's what we're doing as a company is just saying, Hey let's explore all options and yeah, go where the funding takes us.


Tim Chrisman: Okay. Yeah, no, I think it's cool. And yeah, so we will we'll get the link to you all's raise on start engine and and post it with this and yeah, no, it's I think this is exciting and I can't wait to see what comes. No

David Mitlyng: I, like I said, I appreciate this. Glad we got a chance to connect and, just especially, it sounds like you of know this world that we're trying to address.

So yeah, just great to have that conversation with you and yeah appreciate the opportunity. Yeah.

Tim Chrisman: Cool. Thank you, David. All

David Mitlyng: right, Tim. All right. Thank you very much. Take care. All right. Cheers.

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