Join Tim and Brendan in a fun chat about this new generation of Space Professionals and see how very different interests can still bring you to the space industry.
Brendan Rosseau is a rising leader dedicated to unlocking space’s potential to benefit humanity. He currently holds roles at both Harvard Business School and Booz Allen Hamilton. As a Teaching Fellow & Research Associate at Harvard Business School, he serves as a “thought partner” to Prof. Matthew Weinzierl (Senior Associate Dean, and Chair of MBA Program), leading the School’s growing space research, and teaching in the HBS classroom. As a Senior Consultant with Booz Allen Hamilton, he leads acquisition strategy development for space systems at Space Systems Command, supporting military programs through critical acquisition milestones; his role at Booz Allen also involves strategy and business development for the firm’s space business, including as Proposal Manager for a successful contract win with a new client. Prior experiences include space-focused consulting in Washington D.C., crafting national space policy in Congress, aerospace startups, and astrophysical research. Mr. Rosseau was an honors student from a top-ranked college with majors in both astronomy and economics; his academic work has emphasized research on the commercial space industry, including authoring publications in The Harvard Business Review, Harvard Business Publishing, the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA), and the American Astronomical Society (AAS). His work and opinions have appeared in popular media, such as PBS’s NOVA, Newsweek, The Washington Post, Harvard Magazine, and The Space Show. He is a recognized leader among the new generation of space professionals, particularly for his deep subject matter knowledge, clear communication of complex ideas, formulation & execution of strategic visions, and leadership of high-performing teams.
Connect with Brendan here:
Full Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00] Tim Chrisman: Hi, and welcome to another edition of podcasts for the future. I'm your host, Tim. Chrisman the executive director of foundation for the future. And today I'm joined by Brendan Rosseau. Brendan is a rising leader, dedicated to unlocking spaces, potential to benefit humanity. He currently holds roles at both Harvard business school and Booz Allen Hamilton.
[00:00:38] As a teaching fellow and research associate at Harvard business school, he serves as a thought partner to the senior associate Dean and the chair of MBA program there leading the school's growing space research and teaching in the Harvard business school classroom. As a senior consultant with Booz Allen Hamilton, he leads [00:01:00] acquisition strategy development for space systems at space systems command, supporting military programs through critical acquisition milestones. His role there at Booz also involves strategy and business development for the firm's space business, including as a proposal manager for a successful contract win with a new client
[00:01:21] Previously Brendan has worked in space, focus consulting in Washington, DC. Crafting national space policy in Congress and aerospace startups and astrophysical research. Mr. Rosseau was an honor student from a top rank college with majors in both astronomy and economics. We're gonna get into that. And his academic work has emphasized research on the commercial space industry, including authoring publications in the Harvard business review, Harvard business publishing the American Institute of aeronautics and astronautics.
[00:01:56] And the American astronomical society, his work and [00:02:00] opinions have appeared in popular media, such as PBS's Nova Newsweek, the Washington post Harvard magazine and the space show. At the end of the day, Brendan is a recognized leader among this new generation of space professionals and is noted for his deep subject matter knowledge, clear communication of complex ideas.
[00:02:22] Formulation and execution of strategic visions and leadership of high performing teams. We're excited to have him here and let's get to it.
[00:02:31] All righty, Brendan. Great to have you here and excited to chat more.
[00:02:37] Brendan Rosseau: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:38] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, it it's I'm really excited about today's chat cuz the experiences you've had and the path you've charted is fascinating in its how you've navigated this.
[00:02:51] And I think it's best encapsulated in the fact that you have a double major in astronomy and economics. that's
[00:02:58] Brendan Rosseau: yeah. Yeah. Not
[00:02:59] Tim Chrisman: the [00:03:00] usual combo. Yeah. That seems like it's a, a party trick there rather than normal combo. What how did that come about?
[00:03:09] Brendan Rosseau: Sure. It's funny whenever people ask about what you study and I say astronomy in economics, it's funny.
[00:03:13] No one has ever asked about the economics economic side before it's always, oh, astronomy.
[00:03:18] Tim Chrisman: I I know you didn't go to the Chicago school for economics and so we're good economics and I don't have to fight you, exactly,
[00:03:27] Brendan Rosseau: exactly. Yeah, no, it's a great question though. I had always loved space.
[00:03:32] Ever since I was a kid, I just remember being fast. And I grew up in Chicago. I remember going down as a really little kid to the Adler planetarium, which is fantastic if anyone's ever in Chicago and just really loving space. And as I got older and started of studying space in a more serious way, loving Some really fundamental things about it.
[00:03:50] I love that space is vast and that within it, it holds all these questions about our future, some of the most fundamental questions about ourselves [00:04:00] and how we got here. And what is this all really about? Can be addressed in part, at least through space. So that was really my first approach, but as I was.
[00:04:09] Going through my academic career, it became clear that this in like the 2010s became clear that something really special was happening in space. And as your listeners no, that's the commercial space revolution. This is the time where space X was going from. Being, the oddball company with big dreams to really proving a rocket and then doing so opening up whole new possibilities for what we can put in orbit and how much it costs to get there.
[00:04:36] And then the host of other companies that have grown up around it leading rise to this whole idea of a new space economy. I grew up in that kind of. Era and mantra. And when I headed to college I realized. I wanna really learn about the nuts and bolts of space. So I took, the physics and astrophysics classes that it takes to really understand what's going on here.
[00:04:57] What is this about, but also have the economic [00:05:00] acumen to really address these questions, which now are not only determined by, the laws of gravity, but also by the laws of economics too. So that's been a really interesting pathway and I didn't, played football. I did a bunch of other stuff too, so enough to keep me.
[00:05:15] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no it sounds like it. And I I feel like just the two sort of friend groups between those would would be a lot to, to keep up with .
[00:05:24] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. Very different crowd at the like the business, whatever business club meetings versus the astronomy club. They're both great. They're both.
[00:05:32] Oh yeah. Yeah. Speaking different languages.
[00:05:35] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. It looking through your resume you really did a lot of different things while you were studying whether it was being a data analyst looks like an engineer at one point all the way through working
[00:05:48] Brendan Rosseau: very briefly.
[00:05:49] Yeah. It was just a good, it was a good excuse to learn Python. Okay. Which is another thing I realized I'd probably need to. To learn probably a failed attempt at that. I realized I learned enough about programming that [00:06:00] I realized I didn't wanna do it as my full-time job. But yeah, that was a fun experie.
[00:06:05] Tim Chrisman: But I tend to think a month of being an engineer is probably about enough for anybody . It yeah. My dad was an engineer and all the take your kid to work days. It was not having the effect. I think it was supposed to it was,
[00:06:18] Brendan Rosseau: it was not. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. The most significant, I think.
[00:06:22] The way that, that story of economics and astronomy kind of makes sense is when I wrote my senior thesis, it really was the first time I was able to combine these two things and yeah. Produce some kind of meaningful results. So I looked at there's a great book by Alexander McDonald.
[00:06:38] Who's the chief economist at NASA. I highly encourage your listeners to look him up cause he's, he really did some groundbreaking work. It's called a long space age, which was looking at. Okay. How new is this new commercial space age? And he looks at yeah. Funding mechanisms for space enterprises throughout history.
[00:06:53] And I thought it was such an interesting model that showed, maybe there's more that history can teach us about this new [00:07:00] space age. Maybe it isn't entirely new, especially since the private market prior to the arrival of NASA had funded really ambitious space projects. Now they weren't.
[00:07:11] Launching rockets in space. And in fact, most of the time it was funny things like observatories and all these other things, really fascinating history. Anyway in my thesis, I took an even wider look at that where I said, oh, let's really see what history can teach us. Yeah. about this new space age. So I looked at it from, Copernicus to Von Braun.
[00:07:29] So really the, oh wow. Wide, wide aperture there. And it was really interesting cuz I, it helped me understand okay, the way that we approach space projects, and the way that they're funded has implications for the outcomes, it helps determine what they do, how successful they are and who really benefits.
[00:07:48] And it was interesting going through that, you realize that if what you care about is scientific merit and exploration, and a lot of the things that gets us excited about space the way that these things are funded and the way that they [00:08:00] materialize really makes a huge impact. So that was that was a really interesting piece of work I was able to do. I was working in Congress at the time, too. Doing that kind of research while at the same time playing a very minor role in commercial space legislation was really fascinating. And I also met some pretty fantastic people from across the spectrum, including the professor at Harvard business school, who I work with now Matt wines role.
[00:08:22] So that was a interesting first step into a career. I didn't know I was gonna.
[00:08:27] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, that's cool. I definitely wanna get into more about your time there on the committee on science and technology, but before we, yeah, it was fascinating. Yeah. Before we jump over there, your the thesis you wrote was, did you was a continuation of that, what you presented at a I a about India's space efforts and the economics there.
[00:08:50] Brendan Rosseau: No, that was actually something different. It was something I had done for an economics class. I was studying the economic development of India with a really brilliant professor. And I thought, [00:09:00] you know what? India's got such a fascinating space experience for anyone who knows the story of the Indian space research organization ISRO.
[00:09:07] Yeah. It presents a really interesting. Model, that's an alternative to NASA. Yeah, Israel is just about as old as NASA is, even though a lot of people don't realize that. And they as a developing country, especially at the time they truly had to justify each dollar. They were spending on space as providing tangible benefit for their people.
[00:09:28] And so it's just a really interesting. Alternative approach. And I wanted to sink my teeth into that. For anyone who's not familiar with ISRO and the, their story really fascinating and getting even more interesting we're. They're they've been pursuing a different model where they're getting into more and more ambitious space plans.
[00:09:45] And it raises questions about the value that, that it's bringing to the, their citizens the model they were founded on. So anyway that was a really fascinating experience.
[00:09:53] Tim Chrisman: No. And the work that ISRO does, the sort of almost public private partnerships [00:10:00] they've tried at times definitely has been helpful in ways that we here in the us have not tried until very recently.
[00:10:08] And I feel have not really been able to get right.
[00:10:12] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. And I think that in this era where we've seen. Literally dozens of new space agencies pop up out of nowhere around the world of varying levels of resources and commitments. I think Israel provides a really interesting example for these newer space agencies.
[00:10:31] Especially where, they went after specific technologies and capabilities that they thought were important for them. I think we've seen a lot of companies or excuse me, countries, especially like South Korea recently, which had a its successful launch pursuing a similar model.
[00:10:45] So that it's been really interesting.
[00:10:48] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I I should probably go actually read that paper more than just its abstract, cuz it, it sounds pretty cool. But yeah, let's jump back over. I wanna hear more about the work you did [00:11:00] there in the house because I remember when we first met you were talking about how you.
[00:11:07] Some of the work you did was trying to create and shepherd a bill and love to hear more about that.
[00:11:14] Brendan Rosseau: Sure. So I was there in the summer of 2018, just there for a brief stint, but it was really remarkable to see how. Commercial space legislation gets made or in some cases how it doesn't get made even when you've got some good idea.
[00:11:32] So it was just zooming out a bit. It was such a fascinating time. As far as the us government's approach to space, obviously it was the president Trump's administration and there are all these. A lot of activity, but also a lot of kind of eyebrow racing stuff. It was around the time that the space force was really formally announced.
[00:11:51] I remember being in that the committee chambers watching on TV when there was that announcement and a lot of people, we just looked at each other. It was like, okay, I guess we're doing this now. A lot of [00:12:00] really fascinating stuff. Obviously the national space council was really active at that time.
[00:12:04] A lot of people were really excited about it. I thought that they were doing some really tremendous work led by pace and folks like Kevin O'Connell. Yeah. But at the same time politically it's a very. Politically divisive time. And it was interesting to see how that trickled in more and more to space, which.
[00:12:24] As is typically more a partisan or bipartisan and more parochial. So that experience of working on legislation, we were trying to get what we thought was common sense space, situational awareness and space traffic management legislation pushed through as HR 6, 2 26, the American safe or space safe act.
[00:12:44] And it was interesting to see how Even when you've got what you think are good ideas, the political process especially when it gets to be a more divisive a divisive atmosphere can really get in the way of that. So we had a good bill, it passed the committee but it was it never [00:13:00] got to a vote on the house floor and space news actually did a write up about it and a few other pieces of legislation that they said, these are.
[00:13:07] Missed opportunities that we can't afford to be missing if we're gonna have a world leading competitive space industry. So fascinating experience. I really learned a lot from that. And it, it also taught me that I probably wanted to be an environment where where. Politics doesn't determine what you're able to do.
[00:13:24] I've haven't been in politics since though the DC space community is very close to my heart.
[00:13:30] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no. And for people that maybe aren't familiar with the American space, safe management act I don't know how they couldn't, HR 6, 2 26 is everybody knows.
[00:13:43] congress.gov is a great place to do light reading. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:46] Brendan Rosseau: It's fantastic. Exactly.
[00:13:48] Tim Chrisman: But if I'm, if I remember right, this was the bill or one of them that was trying to stand up a space, traffic management entity this one situated it in [00:14:00] department of commerce. Others, I think talked about doing it in department of transportation.
[00:14:06] And I think the default where we ended right now is this weird amalgamation of everybody is a space traffic manager. yeah,
[00:14:17] Brendan Rosseau: yeah. Yeah. It's been really interesting to see. That was the big tug of war at the time between. Department of transportation, a department of commerce and more broadly, we were really figuring out how to best orient our American space enterprise for a.
[00:14:36] Bold new future in space. So you saw that most visibly in the DOD where, with the whole space force debate, but on the commercial and civil side, there were debates going as well. Obviously the department of commerce was identified as this is the right institution to be doing space, situation, show awareness, and space traffic manage.
[00:14:53] And Kevin O'Connell, I think did some really heroic work yeah. In that office with pretty limited resources. But it [00:15:00] continues to be a question of, these are important issues. Maintaining a safe space environment that is friendly for everyone it's safe and sustainable for everyone.
[00:15:10] And making sure that businesses that. Shaping our space, future are not the, are not responsible for, solving the problems that are public goods like that was I thought it was important and I hope that we can settle these issues which unfortunately continue to be, they're not good for anyone if we are still debating these issues and nausea wheel progress is getting made.
[00:15:31] No agreed. So agreed.
[00:15:33] Tim Chrisman: Agreed. And this, the. The one thing people learn real fast here in DC is the even during the cold war the real war in DC is over the budget. So anything that infers you're taking money away from somebody else you become public enemy number one to someone.
[00:15:52] Yeah it's yeah, it's exceptionally frustrating. And yeah, I'm
[00:15:55] Brendan Rosseau: sure that better than.
[00:15:56] Tim Chrisman: It's it's definitely why DC has [00:16:00] a endless stream of interns coming in and going, because people like you come, they take a great idea. It gets chewed up and we then need somebody else who's motivated.
[00:16:12] sure. To
[00:16:13] Brendan Rosseau: sure. On that's certainly true on the flip side. One thing that's been nice to see. As frustrating as those moments can be. You can also see how with one good idea on the stroke of a pen, you can solve these huge foreign problems. Like some of the ones that the national space council has been solving and continues to solve.
[00:16:32] So that's really inspiring to me. And I certainly hope to see more of that kind of progress in the future we need it. We don't have unlimited time here. We need to get moving and help our industry be at the, for.
[00:16:44] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, for sure. And I do think, and we see this frequently where bills are brought back in future congresses and merged with other ones.
[00:16:55] And so I don't doubt that this bill in some way, shape or [00:17:00] form is gonna see life again. And so it'll it'll be pretty cool. No doubt for you. Be able to look back and see that you had a hand in that.
[00:17:08] Brendan Rosseau: Sure. Hopefully by that time I won't be, with gray hair in my rocking chair saying I, I was working on that idea back in my day and they're like, all right, grandad.
[00:17:17] Tim Chrisman: Yeah I got, I started getting gray hair at 27, , I've just avoided having a rocking chair, so I don't have to, oh, there we go. Do that. But so yeah, so you, that was, part of your at school. Work there. So we haven't even gotten you to graduation here. My God. So after school what, you've now got degrees in astronomy and economics.
[00:17:37] Which path do you take?
[00:17:40] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah, so my. Like early steps in my career. I really wanted to figure out okay. The space ecosystem, there's these huge centers of of activity yeah. Where they happen. So that's, government industry and then splitting up government the civil side and the national security side.
[00:17:58] So I had done some work on the [00:18:00] civil side. Had. Great folks and mentors on that side done some work on the kind of industry and economic commercial side. Yeah. So I figured, what, national security is such a huge part of this equation and obviously getting bigger and bigger every year that I decide, if I'm gonna really understand how the space ecosystem works and what's at stake.
[00:18:20] When we talk about the future of space, I really better spend some time in the trench. Working on national security issues. So that's the direction that I decided to take. It's a role that I'm still in consulting at space systems command, really a fascinating experience working, like I said, in the trenches of the acquisition process of huge important NASA security systems.
[00:18:41] So it's both an inspiring. Prospect cause you're able to put up these, it's a very inspiring mission and you're able to get a lot done, but also, I don't think it's a secret that there's a need for change within the space military space acquisition. Process.
[00:18:57] Actually there were just some conversations on the hill, [00:19:00] not so long ago about that with the new with some new appointments in the space force. So it's been really interesting really eye opening experience.
[00:19:08] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, I can imagine. And being able to see firsthand how that acquisition process goes No doubt will be useful later on, but it's also gotta be fascinating now because there's a ton of antidotes that circulate about how broken the system is, how horrible, cetera, et cetera.
[00:19:27] However, Space force is still able to do a ton of stuff. They still are deploying capital through vehicles. Whether it's face works and elsewhere, and the government's still able to fund, tens of billions of dollars of space programs. It may not be perfect, but it clearly is working.
[00:19:48] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. Yeah it is. And if you look at just on paper, the. Space architectures and really important systems that the military in particular has been able to put up. It's remarkable. I think the [00:20:00] most obvious one to point to is GPS. That's the system I worked closely with hugely important for NASA security purposes.
[00:20:06] Also hugely important for the world economy. There were studies put out not too long ago that. Since the GPS signals made available for commercial uses and not just military it's generated trillions of dollars of economic benefit, most of which has come within the past decade with the rise of the smartphone.
[00:20:24] So I think it's a great example of the huge value that these kinds of systems both master security systems, but also just space systems in general can provide for us. And I, I think. Question is we wanna make sure we're doing it as well as we can and doing it faster and certainly outpacing current threats, which are as we're realizing are real
[00:20:45] Tim Chrisman: well for sure.
[00:20:46] It's we, I was just reading an economist article about China. Dumping more money into essentially state owned venture funds economists wasn't terribly bullish on this working out, but [00:21:00] regardless China has money to burn and they're doing it on projects that will support their national security aims.
[00:21:09] And I think you're right that as from Congress on down looking to speed things up make 'em smoother that's only gonna help us
[00:21:18] Yeah. And you started working space systems command right outta college. And you're, snare, as I can tell your main government experience before that was with Congress.
[00:21:30] So now you're with the D O D what was it that was, the most surprising transition piece there?
[00:21:36] Brendan Rosseau: That's a great question. I think that the most surprising thing is just that you realize when you're working on the national security side, that You know that these things are real, that you always assume growing up that someone will take care of us, like we'll, someone's out there making decisions that will protect us.
[00:21:56] We'll always be able to defeat whatever threats and whatever. And I think when [00:22:00] you get there and you realize that, Hey, this is where these decisions happen. These timelines matter getting this right. Really matters. So I think just the sense of. Importance that you felt, walking on a base every day.
[00:22:12] And especially when you on your lunch break, when you read the news and oh, another ASAP test or, here's pictures of of foreign potentially hostile powers latest system you realize, okay, I better get back to work. Because this stuff really matters.
[00:22:26] That was the biggest realization for me. It's still, I think it's instilled the sense of urgency in me that I still very much feel when we talk about not just national security space systems, but really energizing and supporting our space industry. I think that in this great power competition, capitalism is our best weapon.
[00:22:47] And if we wanna maintain. Safe and secure and prosperous based domain, we need to be at the forefront of it. That's, that was my biggest takeaway. From that experience.
[00:22:57] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no, there, there [00:23:00] is definitely something about seeing the rest of what's out there. And it's uh, I guess it's similar to when you see the ocean for the first time.
[00:23:10] And you're like, man, I am really small. There is a lot of other stuff out there. It puts a lot of things in perspective and in, the case of the military, you see a lot of threats and so it yeah there's a lot of urgency that persists for a long time, even after you stop.
[00:23:27] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. I'd imagine you had a similar experience with your background in the CIA and working on national space council. I'd imagine that kind of, once you're in that room and sitting in that chair, you realize okay. This, I really better get this right. Really inspires you to really double check your work and work a little bit harder.
[00:23:44] Cuz you know that the stakes are real and no one else is gonna do it for you. Yeah.
[00:23:48] Tim Chrisman: It's there's. There's this this curve where you're at first paranoid, you're not gonna get it. And then you're paranoid. You're not gonna get it fast enough. [00:24:00] And then you're just paranoid.
[00:24:01] You're missing something. . Yeah. And but yeah, throughout that all that you there is a sense I, it, there's not somebody. This is this is I'm it. Whether that's true or not. It's definitely the sense that I had, and it seems like many have yeah. So you do that, you work space systems command, but that's not all, so I met you talking about Harvard business school.
[00:24:25] You and one of the professors there Matt. Yeah. Matt weer. Yeah. Nicest people I've ever met from Harvard ,
[00:24:32] Brendan Rosseau: I'm not sure if I'll take it as a compliment. I've
[00:24:35] Tim Chrisman: only met three or four. So this isn't representative sample, but yeah. but yeah. What are you what are you doing there?
[00:24:44] Brendan Rosseau: Sure. Matt and I first met A few years ago, actually, when I was back writing my thesis, I was writing about space economics. And as I quickly found out when I was researching my thesis, that's a pretty short list of people who are working on economic issues around space, or at least it certainly [00:25:00] was back then.
[00:25:01] Yeah. We had connected On, just talk and shop about questions we are most excited about, how is a space economy gonna get built? What are the biggest hurdles? What are you most excited about? Things like that. And we had stayed in touch for a while because there's so much excitement going on and every time there's a big, you.
[00:25:20] Step forward. It feels like there's whole new obstacles to confront economically policywise etcetera. Yeah. And so we had stayed in touch and about a year ago we had connected, he said, you know what? I got a position open here to really help with some of the space economics research and teaching that I'm doing.
[00:25:36] And I ended up coming on board. So I do. Now working as a teaching fellow and research associate here working with again, Matt wine's role on some of the economics of space questions. And I also do my space consulting work at space systems command on top of that. So it's been great.
[00:25:51] It keeps my, keeps me busy. But I find that combination of, a foot in the real world as I call it of in the gears of developing space systems and then a [00:26:00] foot working on. Some of the theories and trends and big questions that are shaping our space. Future has really been an eye opening experience for understanding what's going on in space and what's possible.
[00:26:12] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, and I'm sure that's really helpful because of Harvard business schools thing around case studies and using that as a teaching tool I would imagine having the ability to learn and have a, real life case study that you're working in has gotta help as you're developing curriculum and helping with the research.
[00:26:34] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah, absolutely. So that's one of my main. Jobs here as we sit down and we think about what are the stories that we feel are the best teaching tools for understanding, the past and present of space and yeah. Shed light on the future. Matt's been writing case studies on space, I think going back to 2014.
[00:26:52] So really when people. At least when outside observers were really waking up to the opportunities of space. And his first case was [00:27:00] on blue origin. Worked really closely with the company on that. And then since then he's written. I don't even know what we're up to now, but a lot of these case studies on all kinds of organizations, we just wrapped one up yesterday on NASA security and space.
[00:27:13] So obviously a question that's very near and dear to my heart. Yeah. And as the space industry itself has, continued to drive forward and open up whole new possibilities, not just for, value and space, but also whole new opportunities for value here on earth and improving.
[00:27:36] And best of all has been to see the enthusiasm from students MBAs who are excited to jump in and jump into this this class that, that Matt created and that I was lucky to be part of, which we taught for the first time, this spring. Oh,
[00:27:51] Tim Chrisman: cool. Cool. That's yeah, that's really cool.
[00:27:54] We lo lost you there a little bit when you were describing, oh, sorry.
[00:27:58] Brendan Rosseau: Sorry. Can you hear me?
[00:27:59] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no. [00:28:00] Gotcha. Now lost you a little bit after you were talking about how many case studies you guys had and what what you had started to
[00:28:07] Brendan Rosseau: do with them. Oh, Sure. I'll just recap a little bit.
[00:28:10] So yeah. Let me know if I'm going back too far, but Matt started writing case studies on space back in 2014 when the outside world was waking up, the non-space world was waking up to the possibilities of space, wrote a case study on blue origin, working really closely with some of their leadership.
[00:28:25] And it was just a really great experience. And I think he caught the space bug from that time on. Yeah. Using. His economic acumen the tools that he's developed as a PhD economist and economics professor to understand and shed light on the opportunities and challenges of developing the space economy.
[00:28:44] And since then we've been on a role he's written lots and lots of case studies at this point. If anyone's interested, I highly encourage 'em to go to Harvard business publishing.com. They're available. The really interesting digging at the big questions and big players shaping the past present and future of [00:29:00] space.
[00:29:00] And most recently we've we've crystallized. Our thinking and all this material into this first of its kind class that we put together called space, public and commercial economics that we debuted this past spring for the first time, which was a super cool experience. Very much an experiment.
[00:29:17] But I, I think now that it's over, we can say it went really well.
[00:29:22] Tim Chrisman: yeah. No that's really cool. Being a part of making a new class at Harvard that's that sounds like it would've been a ton of work. But yeah, that would've been fun.
[00:29:32] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. It was interesting, I thought it was funny, Matt opened up the class which is all about, The big themes and questions shaping the future in space.
[00:29:40] And he spent a few minutes at the beginning just saying, why are we here? Why are we talking about space at Harvard business school? And I thought it was a really profound answer that he gave, which was, you start off with some of the economic arguments where he's look, there's been a major supply and demand shift in space, and there's look at all this investment in space and all this [00:30:00] excitement, but then also.
[00:30:01] He zoomed out a little bit and said, look, space is going to be one of the fundamental technologies. Technology is in space is gonna be one of the trends that is gonna be the most important in your lifetime. One of our, these is that just every company. Today is in some respects to technology company.
[00:30:18] Yeah. We feel that within the next, choose your timeline 20, 30, 40 years. The potential and value of space will be such that every company, at least global multinational companies will be in some respects, a space company. I think that's just where the trend lines point. And so we really wanted to help.
[00:30:39] Students understand and learn from them and talk about the potential of space all these big, important ideas that are shaping our space future. So really fantastic experience. We had about 50 MBAs who were part of it from all kinds of backgrounds. We had some who were, self-described telescope kids who always loved space and, space was really part of their [00:31:00] character to others who, you know, just.
[00:31:02] I've been reading headlines. I'm interested in space as an investor or I'm interested in space for what it can do for my startup that has, nothing to do with space at face value. So really interesting to see students from MIT all over the place who are able to be part of it.
[00:31:17] And we're doing it again next year. So we're really excited. No,
[00:31:21] Tim Chrisman: that's that that's really awesome. And I think that Matt's right, that it's closer than a lot of people think for when that everybody is going to be a space company. We did economic analysis last year for one of the policies we've been pushing.
[00:31:38] And we're looking at. Where that would help grow jobs and found NASA had done a state by state analysis of where NASA related jobs are around the country and no state did not have space jobs.
[00:31:54] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah, it's amazing. Isn't it? Yeah.
[00:31:55] Tim Chrisman: Even Iowa has hundreds of people working on space. [00:32:00] And so already every state in America has a space economy of some size and it's only growing.
[00:32:09] So yeah, it's it's really exciting.
[00:32:11] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. I think that as excited, I, as I am about the future of space and as much as I love the idea of space. This exciting kind of exotic thing. I think what I really look forward to is a future in which space is somewhat routine, where we're able to use space to solve real problems.
[00:32:31] Just like we use all other forms of technology to solve very real problems terrestrially. So that's something I'm really excited about. I know that's something that your foundation is working to help achieve. And I think we're moving in the right. No
[00:32:45] Tim Chrisman: agreed. And I'm excited at the pace that things are picking up and and starting to move along at, because I do really think that the time's right, the text's right.
[00:32:58] And now it's just a matter of making sure [00:33:00] we get enough momentum that we can't
[00:33:02] Brendan Rosseau: mess it up. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things. Really keeps me fired up about space. It's not hard to be fired up about space, but one of the things that keeps me energized and keeps me wanting to dig deeper and deeper into these questions is just every time we think we've solved the big problem.
[00:33:20] For instance, launch, we, the launch costs have been reduced so much and there's, at last count, I forget I haven't checked the latest count of launch companies. Now. I think we're up to 142 or something. Yeah. But we got so many launch C. Some people are saying that launch is somewhat a solved problem.
[00:33:36] I'm not sure I totally agree with that, but it's, some people are saying it the next problem of, having stations in space and a real presence in space is just as big and important of An issue. And so it's, every time we've solved one major problem. There's another one that that comes up and it gets us fired up to really keep pushing and figuring out how we can break down these complex challenges.
[00:33:58] And what's even more [00:34:00] exciting is that really smart, experienced people. Fundamentally disagree about how to solve these problems or even sometimes what the problems are. So that's great. I think that shows that there's real value for work, like the kind that you're doing and some of the research that we're doing to help steer things in a direction that we think is right, or maybe more neutrally at least, know, shed light on some of these questions.
[00:34:23] Tim Chrisman: no. Agreed. And I think, we like to say that we know we don't have all the right answers. We may not even have any of the right answers. Uh, But we're we're trying to find them and we need more ideas to run into each other and get better because for too long, the space sector's been engineers talking to engineers and it's time to, to open that up and get these different and sometimes conflicting ideas and policies out there, try 'em let's see if they were.
[00:34:54] Brendan Rosseau: Yeah. And uh, yeah. yeah. It's you bring up a really great point, which is, the makeup of [00:35:00] the space industry. That's one of the principles that we really believe in is that as you look at the range of challenges, that. Face our space future. Yeah. We need a much broader set of skills and experiences to address them.
[00:35:16] We talk about needing really topnotch lawyers who understand space and the challenges of space we need. Great architects and artists and planners and policy makers and every kind of role that you need to really. A robust dynamic economy on earth. You're gonna need those same sets of skill sets to really solve the challenges in space.
[00:35:36] And I think that every time I see a software designer or someone with a legal background or someone with a PoliSci background, someone say, I'm really excited about space I wanna contribute to. Humanities future and space. I couldn't be more excited cause I said, yes, there's a role for you.
[00:35:53] And we need you if we're gonna really make this space future happen. Yeah. Couldn't agree
[00:35:59] Tim Chrisman: more. [00:36:00] And that's Oftentimes pretty close to how I close these out. And well done bringing bringing it all back around there.
[00:36:07] Brendan Rosseau: Thanks so much, Tim. It's been really a pleasure. Good luck to you and all the really important work that you guys are doing.
[00:36:11] Looking forward to see all the progress you'll make in the coming.
[00:36:15] Tim Chrisman: Agreed looking forward to seeing what's what's next, both at space systems command and HBS. And thank you so much for
[00:36:22] Brendan Rosseau: being here, Brendan. Absolutely. My pleasure. Take care.