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Space Force Association with Bill "Hippie" Woolf

Colonel William A. Woolf, USAF (Ret), is the President and Founder of Space Force Association. Bill “Hippie” Woolf is a retired Air Force colonel and President and Chief Executive Officer of the Space Force Association. Bill is also the CEO of the Woolf Consulting Group, LLC. The Woolf Consulting Group provides strategic advisory services in space and multi-domain operations.

Col Woolf served over 24 years in the Air Force retiring in 2018. He is a career space and nuclear officer in high-impact operations, staff leadership, and technical program management positions, with peerless depth and breadth of experience in advanced space programs and Joint All-Domain Command and Control. Bill is a graduate of the United States Air Force Weapons School.

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Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Tim Chrisman: Alrighty, welcome to another podcast for the future. I'm Tim, Chrisman your host with the Foundation for the Future. And I'm joined today by Bill "Hippie" Woolf from the space force association. Bill's a retired air force, Colonel currently leads the space force association and has a. Introduction and pedigree that is longer than we have time for and the entire podcast.

[00:00:41] And so in the interest of time we'll jump right in to talking with bill.

[00:00:47] Bill Woolf: Hello, Tim. Thanks so much for hosting this podcast today and really looking forward to the conversation.

[00:00:53] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. It's really exciting to have you here. I know. I like asking warming [00:01:00] up what is it that got you into space?

[00:01:02] Why space for you?

[00:01:06] Bill Woolf: Yeah, that's a fair question. I think it's a fair question for a lot of folks, basis is it's the uncharted domain that provides so much hope. I think for a lot of people. And the reason I got into space was at the time. And my military career, I was serving as a missile launch officer at Malmstrom air force base.

[00:01:26] And they had said that they were going to take missileers into the space community. And so when they opened that up I went over into air force space command at the time and joined up with air force space command. And really just got excited about the mission. And one of the missions I was involved in early on was the early operational support to communications out in the field and making sure that disadvantaged users had critical satellite communications.

[00:01:58] And so that [00:02:00] was a really exciting time and it allowed me to deploy and get some deployment experience. And see how space supports the war fighter. And I tell you, I was always in love with the mission ever since then. And so that's how I got involved in it.

[00:02:16] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, it definitely as I have asked that question across.

[00:02:22] The industry ranging from artists to war fighters, that the idea of being bitten by the space bug comes up again and again, that it's just something that grabs you. The reasons are. Usually different other than it is a open canvas that, you get a, write your own destiny. And so it's it's exciting to hear the different elements of that.

[00:02:49] As I talked to people.

[00:02:51] Bill Woolf: Yeah, no, that's a good point because yeah, we talk a lot about DOD space, but really, space as a, domain is. [00:03:00] A lot of the different pillars to include the economic pillar, the civil, the private sector, and DOD is a relatively small percentage of that. So yeah, it is exciting to see that there's one, so much opportunity and two that people are excited about getting involved in the space domain at all the different levels.

[00:03:20] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. And, you make a good point about all of these other domains and we often don't think about the military being a small part of anything. When we're talking, it is probably a feature of me being in the DC area. DOD is always a big deal anytime anything's going on.

[00:03:39] But with space force, the newest and smallest of the branches by size that is a relatively small piece there. As space forces has stood up, what's it been like if you've been there from the outset of this new service? What's that been?

[00:03:55] Bill Woolf: Yeah, it's been really interesting to see the evolution from [00:04:00] air force space command underneath the underneath the air force and now looking at a new service underneath the department of the air force.

[00:04:09] And that transition was pretty, it was extremely significant. Unfortunately, I think people are looking at it as a political move, but it really wasn't a political move. It was a function of ensuring that the space domain had the resources necessary to execute the space force's mission of space superiority.

[00:04:32] And so that, that has been interesting to see now what I would say probably the most interesting part of it is how the space force is starting to quantify how it accomplishes its superiority. And so just like every other domain where you've got. The you understand the capabilities necessary to execute domain superiority in the land that's numbers of tanks and soldiers and other [00:05:00] combat capability, in the air it's numbers of airplanes and types of jets that are necessary to execute the air superiority mission and the maritime it's of course, aircraft carriers and the Marine units associated with the different carrier battle groups.

[00:05:13] So the space force has the opportunity now to start to quantify. How do we use the budget necessary or the budget available to catalyze how the capabilities are going to be used to support that space superiority mission? I think that's probably the most interesting aspect of this and to hear the general officers in the space works and the senior leaders talk about the development, they're being asked to do.

[00:05:39] A tremendous amount of work and such a small period of time. If you compare it back to when the air force stood up as a separate service, where you could look back at world war two and you could see, you could see exactly what the air capability brought to the air superior remission can help win that war.

[00:05:58] We've not [00:06:00] had to thankfully fight a war in space, or does anyone want us to fight a war in space, but we have to be prepared as a nation. To defend that capability to support a critical infrastructure. But again, you can't see it. And so it's difficult for folks to help, to quantify and catalyze the types of capabilities necessary to support that mission.

[00:06:21] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no. And I'm reminded of the quote what is it? Satellites don't have mothers while we can't see it ma having a dedicated service. Ensures that people know guardians do have mothers. And it's a chance just like with the national guard, connecting the military to the public.

[00:06:40] This seems like a, another avenue for that.

[00:06:46] Bill Woolf: Yeah, that's right. And, eat. Yeah. Guardians do have mothers you're spot on there. But also the other domains that the service supports, they've got mothers and so if you lose space capability from a multi-domain perspective, [00:07:00] what part of the.

[00:07:02] Overall multi-domain superiority is lost and that's what people are having difficulty understanding, I think is if you lose space and support a multi-domain, can you achieve air maritime, or land superiority? And I think the answer to that question is no, but that's really what it comes down to.

[00:07:23] People don't realize that, Hey, if we lose space, we lose, we lose everything.

[00:07:29] Tim Chrisman: Oh, yeah. That's that is hands down. The thing that enables what the U S military does, I saw that as a user on the ground in the army, and we were probably one of the least active users of space.

[00:07:45] And even then I didn't want to navigate with a compass and stars. That was horrible.

[00:07:50] So you as space force was stood up you were there and saw this opening and created the space force association. What was [00:08:00] that, what was behind that idea and the decision there?

[00:08:05] Bill Woolf: Yeah right before this spaceport set up, I was talking to some friends of mine who were still in.

[00:08:11] And I had since retired, it was packing. I retired in 18. And so this was in probably 19. I was talking to some friends who were still in the service and they were talking about the need for a professional organization to help ensure that there was a good transition between. Going from the military into the private sector.

[00:08:30] And that kind of led into a further discussion that said, why don't we have a professional organization that supports the space domain, how that's membership-based. And I looked across the spectrum and one of my frustrations was I couldn't as a retiree talk, and provide help back to the service unless I went through some other professional organizations.

[00:08:56] And so I just said it. If we've got [00:09:00] a professional organization supporting all the other services, it just makes sense that we have a professional membership-based organization that supports the space. And so that's really how SFA started was I created a website and I went to a conference. I talked to a friend of mine and he said, Hey, that needs to go, is that public?

[00:09:18] I said I can be. And so we, we turned it, we, I made it public that day. And in the first day we had a hundred, 100 members of the organization. And from there it just, it had continued to grow. And so that's really the. What we're trying to do at SFA is be able to support a strong US-based force.

[00:09:38] And really what that means is a strong US-based domain and really a global space domain. So that's how it began. And it's just been really exciting to see the reception from folks to say, yeah, I understand exactly what you're doing. Cause every. As this professional organization even the Navy, I think has three different ones where they've got the association of the [00:10:00] us Navy the Navy association and even the Marine Corps association or association of the us Marine Corps.

[00:10:06] So it's okay to have professional non-profits that support different aspects of. The various services, even, I know there's a association of air force. Missileers underneath the air force and there's also a airlift tinker association. And there's several associations underneath the air force as a service as well.

[00:10:27] So it just makes sense to have a service based organization to help ensure that the members have what they need to execute their mission.

[00:10:35] Tim Chrisman: No. And it, any time you're in a situation where the membership of a service or a unit or cohort is unique enough in their needs I think it just makes sense to have.

[00:10:49] That professional association that as you said, lets the members and those retirees have a voice that is heard. And they can, they [00:11:00] can continue to advise and serve even after their time in uniforms done.

[00:11:09] Bill Woolf: Yeah. You bet. And even while at active duty. So for example, we just had. Brand new chapter stand up in Colorado Springs is our first chapter there in Colorado Springs. And we've got a active duty space force member. Who's leading that chat. To, and ensure that there is a opportunity and outlet for the guardians to talk about some of their concerns and raise some of those issues through a professional organization.

[00:11:34] So we're really excited about that.

[00:11:36] Tim Chrisman: No, that's awesome. That's awesome. And I really like how. The space force association packages, what you all do with the, everything ranging from thought leadership coming up with these studies and analyses through what we're talking about here with sharing what the guardians are doing.

[00:11:57] And then actually. Delivering that as [00:12:00] advocacy throughout the country. And I think that is that, that seems like a not only an efficient model, but something that can be quite powerful.

[00:12:11] Bill Woolf: Yeah, I agree. And it's one of those things where back to the point about the DOD, typically, as you said, it's.

[00:12:17] Defense space economy. So that does allow the space force the opportunity to define the critical capabilities they need and then determine what capabilities they need to maybe outsource and what what mission sets they can outsource. So that we know what those critical combat capabilities are, that the spaceports needs.

[00:12:38] And then we can start to derive from that all the other capabilities that the private sector can support with or the civil sector can support with. And even our mission partners overseas, our global allies and how they can support the space period emission. And that's really one of our key tenets.

[00:12:56] And, when we say catalyzing space, power at home and on the frontier is [00:13:00] exactly that, how do you determine what we need and what the space force needs to do its job. And then how do you augment that with the other sectors? And then really at the end of it, it develops a very strong economic base eventually once it's catalyzed.

[00:13:17] So that's really one of our key tenants

[00:13:21] Tim Chrisman: think that's an important point there at the end that a lot of times when I'm giving interviews or talking about space with more critical audiences, there's almost this sense around questions. They ask that. Seemed to indicate there's a perception that anything related to space means we're basically taking bundles of hundred dollar bills and shooting them into space for fun.

[00:13:46] But I think you were hitting on it there with the industrial based piece. Nothing we're doing in space is in any way different fundamentally from what we might do on the crown. We're [00:14:00] putting up security systems and having the workers to actually build them on the ground. And so we're, that's jobs, that's new careers, paths, new and entire new segments of industry that can grow out of that.

[00:14:18] Bill Woolf: Yeah, great point. And that's exactly right. From a workforce development perspective, that's the untapped potential, I think right now where you're going to see, I think a new generation of space experts who can help with the production of space capabilities, identification. Critical resources that exist in the space domain.

[00:14:42] How do we harvest those? Yeah, people criticize the billionaires going into space right now. But the fact is they're explorers, they are they're no different than Lewis and Clark moving across the world. Back in the 18 hundreds when they were developing and settling the west of the west the Western states in the United States.[00:15:00]

[00:15:00] And so this is no different where you've got explorers that are going out there and figuring out how to develop this technology in a very quick way. And at the same time decreasing the cost because the resources out there are tremendous. And then I suspect there's going to be, we'll have space production capability.

[00:15:17] And the very near future. And if the DOD doesn't identify that tremendous opportunity, which they are, they're examining that for sure. I think that the private sector is going to move much faster than they're able to. So you see what's happening with Elon Musk. And space X.

[00:15:33] He is just moving out independent of having defining parameters placed on his ability. And he is, he's demonstrating what's in the art of the possible, which is really the, I think the key to all of this is, taking that innovation and Katherine that innovation and seeing what can actually be done based on the, this new domain opening up and realize that.

[00:15:56] It is a contested domain, but at the same time, it's a tremendous [00:16:00] opportunity for economic development.

[00:16:03] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. And I'm I remember Yes. It was just a little over a month ago when the space force announced their pitch day. And I think it was in the span of 24 hours two dozen companies submitted proposals and pitched their face to SPRs.

[00:16:20] And the decision was made virtually on the spot. That's an unheard of pace for DOD work. I was impressive.

[00:16:29] Bill Woolf: Yeah, that's that. And you're going to see a lot more of that. I suspect there's been a discussion about agile acquisition and I know Congress has been frustrated a little bit with the space force because they probably feel like they're not moving as quickly as they should.

[00:16:43] But the fact is it's tough. It is a tough business as general Raymond says. But there's an opportunity here to look at what the warfighter needs and using that again, as the way to. The quantify. Okay. If we start here with what the warfighter needs and look at what they say they need [00:17:00] then I think you're going to see the opportunity for.

[00:17:02] Capability gaps to be identified, and then you can start prioritizing how to fill those capability gaps. So that's, I think the big shift is, in the past we've been an acquisition based service or at least domain. And I think there's an opportunity here to look at the space war fighter.

[00:17:16] Now under the auspices of space training and readiness command and space operations command, and look at what they need and ask them just like you would any other warfighter in any other domain, what they need to do their job. And I think if we do that, I think our agile acquisition. Concern can be avoided because they are the ones who are fighting the fight.

[00:17:39] The worst case scenario would be, and this from your prior experience, just imagine being asked to do. A land superiority mission, and your capability was a tank. And then you had never actually ever been checked out on how to drive that tank. That's kinda where we're at right now is we are delivering, I think the speed towards is delivering capability that has not [00:18:00] been checked out on by a guardian, and some guardians are being asked to.

[00:18:05] To operate systems that they've not had the trainer for. They've not had the modeling and simulation for they've not had high fidelity simulations and all the other services is, you don't get a capability or system delivered without a. Screening model without tactics, techniques and procedures model without a high fidelity simulation so that you can determine how impactful the specifics to innovate.

[00:18:32] So that's just a long way to say, if we're looking at agile acquisition as a model, I think it's important to look at what the space warfighters need and then be able to provide the space for fighters. The full capability when a system is eventually.

[00:18:49] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, it's it really is incredible. And, as you said on the land air and seaside, the idea that you're not [00:19:00] physically hands-on with your kit, your weapon your tool is mindblowing does make preventative maintenance a little easier, but it's a whole new environment.

[00:19:11] And how is that going? How is that being adapted to, I would imagine for the most part, since a lot of these units already had these missions it was fairly easy, but that's still. A fairly significant mindset shift at the very least.

[00:19:29] Bill Woolf: Yeah, you're right. Everything's process-based and the process that the air force uses to get to figuring out what the war fighter needs is the weapons and tactics model, where they bring the experts from around the world, in the air.

[00:19:45] And they bring them to Nellis air force base, and they sit them in a room for a couple of weeks and they bring the experts together and say, Hey what are the emerging threats out there? And what do we need to do from a material or non-material solution to [00:20:00] combat those. And the air domain. And then at the end of that, it culminates in a report that goes to all the four starters in the air force.

[00:20:08] And it allows the tactician, the war fighter to sit in front of the four stars and say if I don't get this capability from a material, either purchased some tool or widget that goes on the. Or I get a non-material solution through a improved, active techniques or procedure, then I'm not going to be able to do my air superiority mission.

[00:20:28] I think that's the process that general Saltzman is working on right now. In fact, that just concluded last or two weeks ago for the space force. So I would just urge leadership, our. Just R her nation to look at that process and ask more about it. What was the result of that process?

[00:20:47] What are some of the key technologies that are already as need to do their job? Because they just provided that outreach to seniors paperwork. And I'm sure some of that is, of course it's going to be classified, but the process [00:21:00] itself is I think a strong one. So I think that's the, that's what the space force is doing to try to get to that point where they can start to articles.

[00:21:09] Those capability gaps that exist and then quantify and define on a prioritized basis what they need. And I'm pretty sure that at the top of that is a realistic modeling and SIM capability, so they can fight through a contested domain virtually in a realistic environment, physically based on physics environment.

[00:21:31] To figure out whether or not they can achieve success. And so just like every other domain, they've got those simulators that they can fight through in a realistic environment and figure out whether or not they. Be successful because as one thing we don't have is a lot of atorva capabilities and I suspect a lot of those from a training and test perspective, you don't want to be testing those real world capabilities on a regular basis.

[00:21:57] Now I know that they're moving to develop [00:22:00] that on orbit test capability, but it's something to be considered of.

[00:22:06] Tim Chrisman: Yeah, no. I was just laughing because I remember the first time I was explaining to one of my, one of my friends about the solar panels, for instance, on one of the satellites and how they're not.

[00:22:21] Refold them back in, it's basically fishing wire. That's used to unfold them and then it's done. And so a lot of these on orbit capabilities. Whether it's, even doable outside of a war kind of situation is one thing. But if not like it's a significant emotional event to do some of these things that are not virtual.

[00:22:45] So that's, that makes a lot more sense. Why the message of space force as a digital service keeps coming up?

[00:22:56] Bill Woolf: Yeah, you bet. And from a process perspective, this is no [00:23:00] different than any other service where you have, from a developmental test and evaluation process where AFRL is responsible for defining and helping to deliver and identify new capabilities.

[00:23:12] The spraining materials are developed from the developmental test and evaluation process. That moves over to the operational test and evaluation process, which speed training and readiness command is standing that capability up now to where you can take a new capability, run through D T and E. And then once it's delivered to OTT, you now have a tactics manual that you can actually train to.

[00:23:37] So now you can develop the training objectives necessary. To accomplish that specific those specific tasks that system is designed to do and develop that out. And so when, once you start doing that training, you can identify what the capability gaps are in the system to provide. Tactics improvement proposals that are either material or non-material [00:24:00] based, and that leads right back into the DTMD process.

[00:24:02] So what I just explained there is a, really rough example of, how do you go from testing to tactic development, to training and then back to testing again? So it's just a three-step process that needs to move very quickly so that we can evolve those systems. And those processes for our war fighters.

[00:24:22] So they have the capabilities, they need to do their job.

[00:24:26] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. And and I'm glad there are. Smarter people than me doing that. It sounds like a intensive and a time consuming process. And I'm excited to hear the changes and stuff, but no, all too well, the amount of work that must go in on the backside.

[00:24:48] And so my hats off to the guardians doing that work.

[00:24:54] Bill Woolf: That's right. And there's so much work that needs to be done. And so that's part of the frustration I suspect from from folks [00:25:00] about the services. Hey, how come you're not moving as fast as you, as we think you should? The fact that they're moving as fast as they possibly can with the resources they were given, is still the smallest service with just over 15,000.

[00:25:10] Next smallest is Marine Corps at I think the number is 175,000. And so you see the resources available versus the mission responsibility. It's tremendous. And so at that point, you have to look, do we have the resources necessary to do the job? And I think the answer is. No, from a human capital perspective, they're still working on that and that human capital strategy just with a reveal the few weeks ago.

[00:25:37] But that's also a very interesting concept as well. But the fact is that those resources are limiting and I suspect I need more so that we can actually accomplish that, that tasks that the space force has been given.

[00:25:52] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. It's a. I suppose a perennial issue that we always ask our war [00:26:00] fighters to do more with less and it's it's easy to lose sight of how much they're doing with what they're given when you know, we on the outside are seeing.

[00:26:12] Large numbers in the DOD budget or something like that. But at the end of the day, those dollars are being stretched by men and women in uniform to go probably further than it could go in just about any other circumstance.

[00:26:31] Bill Woolf: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:33] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. One of the things I like to ask people, it's what is it that is challenging you and your organization and why is it that gets you up in the morning?

[00:26:44] Because we, oftentimes challenges have this negative connotation around them. Oftentimes, whether we realize it or not. Some of the things that we like best about what it is we're passionate about is that challenging peaks. And so what [00:27:00] is that piece there? Whether it's SFA or elsewhere that keeps you going.

[00:27:05] Bill Woolf: Yeah, no, it's great question, Tim. What I'm so passionate about and what I get so excited about is the hope that the space domain provides and the knowledge that the American people and really the global population needs to understand about the space domain. It's such a critically vitally important domain yet.

[00:27:24] There's so much that folks don't understand. I look at this as a novel. Spectrum, there's on the left hand side of the spectrum, there's Euro knowledge. People don't understand that the space forces us actual service. They don't understand what the speed force does. And then on the right-hand side of the spectrum, you have folks who are extremely knowledgeable, NASA engineers, about how rockets work, how we get folks into space, how we get folks down from space, how we get satellites into space how those satellites support our critical infrastructure, how the ground systems support those cells.

[00:27:53] And how the sat and how the space domain supports the other domains. And so there's the continuum of [00:28:00] a understanding of space, knowledge. And so what I'm super excited about is ensuring that on that continuum of knowledge, that there is an opportunity for folks to learn more. So if folks are on the left-hand side of that continuum there's an opportunity to move them.

[00:28:15] Providing by providing specific education opportunities. And if they're on the center of the spectrum, there's an opportunity for them to move right. And understand more of the technological aspect of it. And what that does just every the service is as the technology increases, the knowledge baseline should also increase.

[00:28:33] And to your point about resources, overall resource, it should essentially decrease. Isn't that why we have the technology we have is so that we don't have to spend the same amount of resources. And so we should see an inverse proportional curve as technology increases resources to decrease, but I don't think we're seeing that.

[00:28:53] And that's really, the question is why aren't we seeing that, what technology has been developed to ensure that resources. Can [00:29:00] be can decline over time. And so those are the types of questions that, that I like to continue to discuss with folks and talk about. And those are the things that keep me waking up every morning, excited about helping to volunteer with a speech work association and ensure that those objectives are being discussed.

[00:29:24] Tim Chrisman: I'm reminded as you're talking here about, how animated you get when somebody comes up to you and asks, why space force, or why space force association. And a lot of people would take that as a personal challenge or in a front that you're asking, like, why do I exist almost?

[00:29:42] But you light up with this chance to. Explain the purpose behind it and actually answer the question. And it's extremely something to watch. I I love it.

[00:29:55] Bill Woolf: Now, thank you, Tim. I appreciate that. And I will it'd be remiss to say that it's, I had my time [00:30:00] in uniform and I'm very thankful for the opportunity this station provided me to serve.

[00:30:06] And now it's really about getting the story out for the guardians and making sure that the Guardian's story is being heard. And that's really what excites me is it's not about what I was able to do or not do while I was in uniform. It's really about. The setting the stage for the next generation of spaceports leaders and future guardians, and even folks who are interested in this space domain that don't necessarily become guardians, but are, getting, they get involved in industry.

[00:30:35] And so that's what really excites me. And then how. Do we take those experts who are in the service and be able to transition them as veterans into the private sector. And so those are really the key tenants that I focus on is that workforce development piece and ensuring that the guardians have what they need to do their job.

[00:30:56] And just making sure that everyone knows that those [00:31:00] are critical for our national security but also for our economic.

[00:31:05] Tim Chrisman: Oh, yeah. No, and that's huge. I am reminded of a talk. I had with a friend of mine who currently runs a venture capital firm. He's got a PhD in finance. Actually I don't know what his PhD is in, but that's not relevant to the story.

[00:31:21] He's very accomplished. But he grew up the son of a cramped. Crab fishermen and wall street PhDs. None of that. Possible that wasn't in their frame of reference is something that was even real. And he went on and did it and blazed a trail through there. And now works to make sure others don't have to struggle to find their way.

[00:31:45] And I think what you're talking about there with connecting the dots for people and explaining how this works, whether it's transitioning out of the military, Joining or just being aware, knowing how, or [00:32:00] that it's even possible is I think what GI Joe said is half the battle.

[00:32:04] Yeah I think that is about all the questions I had. But how can people learn more about space force association and get involved?

[00:32:13] Bill Woolf: Yeah. You bet. Thanks Tim. It's. If folks are interested in, they're interested just in the space domain and want to learn more about it, I'd ask them to head on over to us.

[00:32:23] for web. We offer individual membership for $35 a year. And what that does, is it brings you into a ecosystem where like-minded individuals are having discussions about, the space domain and how they can help. And then there's volunteer opportunities. As I said, we just set up.

[00:32:41] The first chapter in Colorado Springs, and we're gonna be sending up more chapters throughout the U S to include Ohio and Michigan and DC and Alabama and Florida and California. We're really excited about standing up those new chapters. And again, what that does is it brings the community together.

[00:32:59] So we [00:33:00] can have these types of discussions and continue to evolve the discussion.

[00:33:05] Tim Chrisman: Okay. And we'll make sure we have the links to that in the description here and yeah, SFS events are impressive ranging from UL's podcasts through the event you just held the space war fighter wins.

[00:33:23] Event. And so I encourage people check it out, get involved and yeah. Thanks for thanks for being here, bell.

[00:33:31] Bill Woolf: Hey, thanks a lot, Tim. I appreciate everything foundation for the feature is doing over there as well. And thanks for your leadership with that organization. And we can continue to look forward to partnership opportunities and helping each other out.

[00:33:43] So it's all mutually beneficial. And so I appreciate that. And thanks again for having SFA on. Thanks.

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