Join Tim and Daniel in a discussion about Investment in Space Companies and How Venture Funds come to be.
Daniel Kleinmann is one of the founders and investors at the Explorer 1 Fund. Explorer 1 is an early stage venture fund investing in companies that are fundamental to the new space economy.
Prior to Explorer 1, Daniel managed a single-family office out of Dallas, TX where he was responsible for setting up the firm's early-stage venture infrastructure, investing in healthcare, life science and enterprise software. Prior to his role at the family office, Daniel worked in the Tel Aviv tech ecosystem in startup and tech scouting roles. Daniel has an MBA from NYU and Tel Aviv University.
Connect with Daniel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-kleinmann-67a3a4a7/
[00:00:11] Tim Chrisman: Hello, and welcome to another edition of podcasts for the future. I'm your host, Tim Chrisman. I'm joined today by Daniel Kleinmann of the Explorer one fund. Daniel is one of the founders and investors there at Explorer, one fund, which is an early stage venture fund investing in companies that are fundamental to the new space.
[00:00:33] Prior to Explorer. One, Daniel managed a single family office out of Dallas, Texas, where he was responsible for setting up the firms early stage venture infrastructure that invested in healthcare, life sciences and enterprise software. Prior to his role at the family office, Daniel worked at the Televiv tech ecosystem in startup and tech scouting roles.
[00:00:53] Daniel has an MBA from NYU and Tel Aviv university. We're excited to have Daniel here today.[00:01:00]
[00:01:00] All right, Daniel. Thanks for joining us here today. It's really great to have you
[00:01:06] Daniel Kleinmann: absolutely pleasure to be here on this fine Tuesday afternoon. Yeah,
[00:01:12] Tim Chrisman: no, it's it's pretty pretty exciting. I know that Recently met on the sidelines of, I think south by Southwest. And it was really cool here in what you're doing with Explorer one fund and how a year.
[00:01:29] Sort of taking that and using it as a vehicle to help shape some of these new companies coming into the space sector. And I definitely want to get to that, but want to hear a little bit more about you and what got you here? I I saw you went to school at least for one of your degrees in Israel.
[00:01:45] So that's pretty cool. So yeah. What what got you to where you're at?
[00:01:49] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah work work backwards. So I was. Actually over from the beginning. So I'm originally Israeli. I grew up in Canada in Winnipeg, which is like [00:02:00] the coldest place ever. I think it's close to Mars. And then then to Toronto was always gravitating towards.
[00:02:10] Entrepreneurship innovation. I was just like into ideas and concepts that would like fundamentally disrupt the way that we live. And that drew me towards like startup innovation. I didn't really know about venture capital the time I was like startups seem cool. You get to learn about a bunch of different stuff.
[00:02:31] So I did. And then I worked in Israel, went back, which has a really robust tech ecosystem and started speaking system. So work there for a cyber security company, a FinTech company. And then I started getting more and more involved. We call tech scouting, which is representing investors from across the world that want to access the Televiv tech ecosystem.
[00:02:52] And that was my foray, into the world of venture capital, whereas the okay. There's investors that actually invest in [00:03:00] these startups, it's not just companies or larger groups. Did an MBA after that was a joint program between the New York university, where I studied entrepreneurial studies and Televiv, and then finance in New York.
[00:03:11] And then right after that, I decided I wanted to get into venture capital. At the time I met a gentleman who had a family office in Dallas in Texas. And he asked me to come help him set up his early stage venture strategy at the family office. So I came in there and spent four years doing investments in venture funds and then directly into companies across like we're mostly focused on healthcare and biotech.
[00:03:44] Enterprise software. And then I carved out a niche for myself, which was like deep tech, but just like going back to what I was interested in, like what has changed the way that we live. So I looked at like robotics, quantum, and then I saw this was in [00:04:00] 2019, I guess it started this.
[00:04:02] Exponential increase in startups in this space category. Yeah. So it was like, I use Y Combinator, which is an incubator as like the proxy for when stuff becomes investible. And I started seeing in one of their batches, like two space companies then five and then all of a sudden, like 11 space companies.
[00:04:25] And I was like, okay, what's going on? Yeah. And then I got more and more interested, reached out to family, friends that connected me to my now business partners. Leon alkali, who at the time was at NASA's jet propulsion laboratories. And. No interested in the commercialization of space, but still very much in the government.
[00:04:48] And then and then, yeah, we, he approached me with two other members of the team and we launched explore more less than a year ago.
[00:04:57] Tim Chrisman: That's cool.
[00:05:23] Daniel Kleinmann: I I'm not going to lie. [00:05:00] I first learned the distinction between a family office and other investment Entities from billions. Okay. When Bobby Axelrod's there's no way.
[00:05:09] I remember becoming a family office. I want to take other people's money. And it was at that point, I realized, wait a minute. Okay. These other funds, they have other people's money too. Okay. I got it now.
And I guess, yeah, family office like a new term newish term in the last couple of years, but you can imagine that it's like, The investment management arm of a private families.
[00:05:38] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. And from what I learned, it was, so there's that, that handles the investment and then there's usually a philanthropic version. That's the flip side of it. Yeah,
[00:05:48] Daniel Kleinmann: exactly. Private investors. I maybe I couldn't shouldn't call them just families, but at private events we'll have usually a foundation and an investment arm and then investment arm is [00:06:00] sometimes called the family office.
[00:06:01] And yeah, it's, you can invest depends on where the. Investors backgrounds from, or what their interests are, but you really, you can invest in whatever you're interested in. So that was cool.
[00:06:19] Yeah. And just the guy was with, it was an amazing guy and still very close today. And he was super into biotech, so I was like, Really into biotech. And then I was like, okay, wait, space. Yeah,
[00:06:33] Tim Chrisman: no, it's bad ex pretty cool. I'd say that's one of, in my top four or five there. But no it's definitely been really interesting learning a lot about this.
[00:06:43] I don't have a finance background. And so coming in here is, we're standing up the industry association for space investors, learning about all of these different. Ways that funds are made different types of funds. Super interesting. And as [00:07:00] I've learned, every venture firm has a thesis like that is the reason that the fund exists.
[00:07:06] That's what you're investing in. What is Explorer ones?
[00:07:11] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. So we and I understand and appreciate it. It's like the world of venture capital is opaque from the outside looking in. Explore one we're a venture fund that invests in companies that are fundamental to the growth and success of the new space economy.
[00:07:27] So we are looking to invest in companies all along the value chain of the new space economy. And companies that fit within that value chain that we think can drive returns for us and for investors. Yeah.
[00:07:48] Tim Chrisman: And so how, when you started this, how did you go about creating that as the platform?
[00:07:54] What, how does that look?
[00:07:56] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. So the way a venture fund is structured is [00:08:00] you have the management team, which are the investors who identify companies diligence, those companies. And then ultimately select to either invest them or not invest in them and then invest a certain amount of money into those companies.
[00:08:16] And then over time you build a portfolio now in order to be able to actually invest the company, you need to raise money as a investor from other investors. To get started as a venture capital firm. You need to first and foremost have sort of a thesis that you believe you can be successful in identifying.
[00:08:40] Good investments that will drive a return if you were to have the money to be, to put, to work. So our strategy was we have an incredibly what we think that we have an incredible team that gives us a differentiator because two members of our team are highly [00:09:00] technical. Leon's 32 years at NASA's jet propulsion laboratory.
[00:09:04] Then from our team, he was an aerospace engineer, Boeing, a blue origin, and then myself and Phil have sort of investment backgrounds. So we believe that we could identify companies and invest them. We're doing like 10 companies. And investing up to a million dollars each. So that was our strategy thesis.
[00:09:24] And once you have that form, do you have to go and get capital from investors? So those investors will give you capital commit capital, I should say to their fund. And then you get access to that capital. Whenever you identify opportunities, you deploy it. And then when those exit or drive a return through an M and a or they go to the public markets, then you pay back your investors and.
[00:09:58] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. So that's [00:10:00] interesting. So when you, so you're going out, you're finding these companies you're finding the investors first and they're saying, I promise I'll give you money. And then you're turning around and finding a company and the companies hearing the same thing from you.
[00:10:13] Yeah, I'm good. I want to give you money. You're then turning back around and say, you have 10 investors. And he said, they're going to give a million dollars. And now you've found a company to invest one of those millions in, does everybody then give you 10% and say, Hey, here's your a hundred K go invest that million, or how does that work?
[00:10:35] Daniel Kleinmann: So it's not as. Linear as that it would, it's like when you sign up to being an investor in a venture capitalist you're investing too, like a blind tool. You have blind pool, you have non-black troubled spots, but a blind pool, which then they are committing a certain amount of capital. We could call that capital.
[00:10:58] It depends on the way you [00:11:00] structure venture fund, but in a lot of cases, Call that capital on an as needed basis. So call capital from our group of investors. And then we could invest that into that company to the core of your question. Yes. Like your ownership in a venture capital firm is pro-rata.
[00:11:21] But your ownership in the underlying companies is pro-rata to your overall commitment of the fund. So you get a very simple structure where you had a $10 million fund. You had 10 investors, each put a million, those investors would own, or have ownership to on a gross level, 10% ownership with the underlying companies.
[00:11:45] Tim Chrisman: Okay, that makes sense. And the money on call also makes sense. My, one of the things that consistently interests me is these large checks that are made for these investments. And I'm always fascinated by the [00:12:00] idea that somebody's actually writing a check for, large amounts of money. I get it.
[00:12:04] There's electronic transfers now it's 20, 22, but still, it's a funny thing to think about. Yeah.
[00:12:10] Daniel Kleinmann: And then but I should also mention that. When you get much larger and you're like let's say a billion dollar fund. You typically aren't getting money just from private investors. You're typically getting money from institutional investors.
[00:12:26] Like pension plans or endowments or mutual funds. And they said that they operate a little bit, they do operate differently. They're still investors, but they're in a position where. They have their mandates of we need to allocate a certain percentage to private equity and then a portion of that to venture capital and a portion of that to early stage funds.
[00:12:53] And for that to thematic funds and disruptive areas, because that's how we need to construct a portfolio. [00:13:00] And then they, and if they're sitting on like a hundred billion, that might be like, 500 million to a billion dollars that they need to allocate in a certain category, which. There might only be a handful of funds out there that they can go to just the onion, get peeled back a lot
[00:13:22] Tim Chrisman: on this.
[00:13:23] Oh, sure. And I would imagine, especially with those institutional investors that's, they have a threshold, you have to, monitor. X number of millions or hundreds of millions of assets under management before they start jumping in. And even then there's scales where, you're not getting the New York firefighters pension fund until you're at, whatever, $5 billion or $10 billion.
[00:13:50] So with Explorer one then, so you've raised your first fund. You're deploying that. I assume because, I assume [00:14:00] fi venture is similar to politics and that you're always fundraising. You're always looking ahead to the next event, whether it's another fund or another midterms, new bond.
[00:14:13] Is there going to be an Explorer to,
[00:14:15] Daniel Kleinmann: There will likely be an Explorer, one subsequent fund Explorer. One is actually the name of the first seller, the U S ever sent us. So we would probably I don't know if we would change the name of history, but we, it would be our subsequent fund. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:31] We, we think about that the evolution of our strategy Now how we've been able to deploy our strategy, how confident we feel in sort of our current portfolio and the way they're performing and when that would allow us to potentially go out and raise a second fund and watch her strategy evolve into potentially a larger fund allowing us to deploy more capital and more companies, or it's really a confluence of [00:15:00] the.
[00:15:01] The growth of the new space economy, macro economic factors our specific strategy and how it all plays into that.
[00:15:09] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. And I definitely want to hear more about like how you go about choosing companies, but on a sort of fund management side Is it normal to have multiple funds with open investments running simultaneously?
[00:15:26] Maybe you commit everything from the first fund, but they all have an exited you don't, haven't gotten the money back.
[00:15:33] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. So it's a great question. And I should say this is our first fund, so like we haven't gotten to that point, but yeah, fundamentally if you have a strategy which is common that you reserve capital for follow on investments.
[00:15:47] So if you invest in a company's first financing round and the company's doing really well. A lot of the time venture funds will reserve capital to follow on in subsequent rounds. [00:16:00] Then you enter what's called like a follow on period in your investment. So let's say you've selected all your companies.
[00:16:09] You've invested capital into all their initial or you've written initial checks into all of them. And then a year and a half or two years later, a lot of them were raising subsequent rounds. Then we might choose to invest in those subsequent rounds. And then you'll enter what's called like the harvesting period where you're waiting for Liquidity events from any one of the winners.
[00:16:37] And then you have to manage those events, whether it just be the operational aspect of a company going public and you having to distribute that to your investors. So if typically once you've deployed all your capital, you can start. And people do it a lot faster, but you [00:17:00] can start thinking about fun too.
[00:17:01] So then you would possibly may managing, or you'd be in the follow on stage or the harvesting stage of fund one, as we're thinking about or starting and deploying fund to.
[00:17:15] Tim Chrisman: And so I would assume that's how some of these bigger ones like Lux or and RESO and score wits, do it where they're constantly turning out new funds and they have them at all of these different stages.
[00:17:28] Cause they've got, 300 people helping to manage it
[00:17:31] Daniel Kleinmann: or is that, and they're like behemoths their financial institution. I think drusen filed to be an RA.
[00:17:38] Tim Chrisman: Just starting an incubator to, I saw.
[00:17:41] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah they're super interesting. They've obviously built incredible platform and invest in amazing companies.
[00:17:48] I, yeah you really want to be able to just prove to the market that you can select winners and select winners means that you've returned capital to investors. That's met a rate of [00:18:00] return that everyone's seems to be satisfied with and then. That should warrant you being able to grow and scale up, but some funds like choose to not grow beyond a certain AUM.
[00:18:16] Oh, I think it's benchmark is famous for staying at 450 million. I think I probably, I'm probably wrong on those numbers, but. They just said, this is our strategy. We want to stay here. We know that this is our sweet spot. We don't want to move past that. That's
[00:18:37] Tim Chrisman: fair. If you're, you're a rock star at 450 million, but you're worried you're going to tank at a billion might as well stay a rockstar.
[00:18:44] Daniel Kleinmann: When you get that big, you have to deploy capital, right? So you ended up. Potentially funding deals that you just feel like I can't sit on this cash. I want to sit on this cash. I need to put money to work. Yeah.
[00:18:59] Tim Chrisman: No, [00:19:00] that's fair. Yeah, those are all assumed good problems to have. It's future Daniel's problem.
[00:19:05] Yeah. With this, you mentioned earlier, this due diligence you do with companies and a lot of times, entrepreneurs hear this, you hear this in the news media elsewhere, venture funds are inundated with pitches, for proposals, for everything from wildly absurd to the next round of WeWork or something.
[00:19:25] Like what does that look like on a normal day? For you in terms of these new companies coming in, not necessarily the other stuff you're already churning through, but like new.
[00:19:39] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. And I should caveat by saying that like every firm has their own process, I guess it's like snowflakes. So the way we view it or the way we see it is We have built, multiple channels to source deals from our personal networks.
[00:19:59] We get [00:20:00] inbound, we seek out companies based on categories and the new space economy that we're looking to invest in. And. So as a result of that, once you've built those channels and built an engine and self-sustaining it results in us having companies reach out either on LinkedIn or emailing us or asking for references from folks in our network to speak to us or.
[00:20:33] We hear about someone starting company and we'll reach out to them. So it's just on a given day, like we might get exposed to two or three new companies in the new space economy. We're trying to talk to everyone. Yeah, so we. I guess the one thing that we have in the new space economy, which is like really beautiful, which is not like other more, maybe mature [00:21:00] sectors, is that we're trying to be as collaborative as we can, even with other venture funds or other companies.
[00:21:08] We all want the new space economy to succeed. We have this robust ecosystem in our solar system. And so for us, it's just a collaborative effort with everyone.
[00:21:20] Tim Chrisman: No, it's true. And I've definitely seen that across the board, especially with Space investors who've been around for at least a couple of years.
[00:21:29] As the industry has exploded and more and more coming in, there are some that have started to get a reputation for sharp Al bros or being a little out there. But. It does seem unique and that a lot of other sectors, it is much more cut throat trying to get your way into a deal that is oversubscribed or something where too many people are trying to invest.
[00:21:53] Also a good problem to have. If you're on the company side, that solid, it's a solid problem. It's a [00:22:00] life goal right there.
[00:22:00] Daniel Kleinmann: I hope. And I believe that as the new space economy evolves, like you'll have forget who said this to me. I think it was my colleague or someone else that like today, every company is a tech company.
[00:22:14] You use some aspect of technology that. You couldn't have said that in the nineties or in the early two thousands, we believe that every company will eventually become a space company, some aspect of. Space to be part of the infrastructure moving forward.
[00:22:35] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. No, and I think that, we're already, we're pretty close to that point already where we're, seen more and more that you know, everything from tractors to.
[00:22:47] Our phones are connected to space being driven themselves using space data. It's things we don't even think about are very firmly in the realm of [00:23:00] space, influencing them, if not them being a part of the space sector. So yeah.
[00:23:06] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. It's I guess that was one of the key light bulbs or aha moments when I was thinking about space was I was having a conversation actually with my father and I was like, what do you think about space?
[00:23:18] He's if we just shut off everything that exists in space, like we'd be sent back to like just, we take for granted all that we leveraged today from space. Yeah. It's like pretty amazing. Just GPS alone. Like I'm not going anywhere without Google maps.
[00:23:35] Tim Chrisman: Oh, all right. I remember being taught even in the early two thousands in the army, how to navigate with the mapping companies.
[00:23:42] I'm like, why am I doing this? I have GPS. There might be one day where you're down. I'm like, okay. Yeah. That's not going to be the case. And now I'm like, I don't know. Is this a map? I don't know what this is for. I'm going to use my phone. Yeah, it's it's pretty great. I'm really a fan of everything [00:24:00] space gets me.
[00:24:00] Yeah, no, I, so I know you can't, talk about any of the investments that have already you're nowhere. Under wraps being worked through. But what are some of the companies you already have invested in that are out there and you're able to talk about,
[00:24:15] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah, I can share I guess the categories that were like, oh, there we go.
[00:24:19] Investing in. And I guess maybe just stepping back, like we've used space in in a waves. So the first wave that took place was driving the cost to access the cost of launch and the cost to access space dramatically down. It used to cost tens of thousands of dollars per kilogram to send an asset to space.
[00:24:47] And then in 2017 space X achieved the reusability and brought that cost down dramatically to what it is today, which is like around a thousand dollars a kilo. And [00:25:00] that's opened up the doors to send way more satellites to space. And satellites have never been cheaper or smaller to build. So you're going to have what estimates believe to be are like a hundred thousand satellites in orbit.
[00:25:14] We use 10 years, so we don't have, and this presents like the problem and the opportunity was we don't have the infrastructure in orbit today to really support that volume of satellites to give you a reference. 5,000 satellites or so in orbit today. So that's the second wave of space, which is building on infrastructure and orbit to be able to support that.
[00:25:42] And that looks like. Refueling hubs to extend the life of satellites. Satellite servicing, other moving cell it's from one orbit to another, or retiring old satellites and cleaning up debris in orbit space traffic managing. Yeah, it's a company that [00:26:00] is doing weather analysis and prediction, like not atmospheric weather, like space weather, like stuff like that.
[00:26:09] So that's the second wave. And then the third one. And I think this is where things become really interesting and really big marker potentials is the applications that begin to emerge on top of the infrastructure. So we think of it like the iPhone and the app store. So computers used to be the size of a room and then the size of our phone.
[00:26:32] And then you had the app store and then start with like angry birds snakes.
[00:26:39] Uber and Airbnb and Instagram, like Tinder and stuff. So it's I don't think when they built the app store necessarily, they thought there would be, companies with hundreds of billions just to the applications. But we think that's probably all happened in the new space economy. So we know.
[00:26:55] What's some of those app, apps are probably which is like [00:27:00] manufacturing and orbit bring data centers to orbit space-based solar energy true space tourism hotels or orbital, and then adjacent to that, which is phase the fourth way, which is the lunar.
[00:27:17] Which is like the idea of industrializing the moon. And really for the moon we joke is like one big rocks that should be mined. And yeah. It's like building out all the necessary surface infrastructure to be able to support the eventual resource prospecting and mining of the lunar surface.
[00:27:39] So Landers rovers, lunar habitats communications, infrastructure et cetera. So we look at those that picture of those waves and we've identified. Key verticals that we're trying to go after and invest into and build a portfolio that's diversified across those. Like strict space transportation, [00:28:00] which is like launching propulsion in space assets, which are like satellites orbital infrastructure, which is like data relay systems.
[00:28:10] There's, supply chain that fits into all that, like rocket fuel companies, there's companies selling rocket engines, software as a category. Companies building like digital environments for designing missions and then getting space, which is like manufacturing, orbit, Rover companies, et cetera.
[00:28:32] So we've invested in cross all of those.
[00:28:35] Tim Chrisman: Okay. Okay. That makes sense. That that infrastructure backbone It's something that definitely doesn't get a ton of attention. Even though in many cases, when you talk to these large institutional investors who were talking about earlier on the ground, that's exactly the sort of investment they want, because they're fine with, some of these investments that may take 10 years to [00:29:00] start generating a return, but then it's generating return for 15.
[00:29:04] Seventy-five years. And so that's the cool stuff about these infrastructure plays.
[00:29:09] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. So it's funny. Cause I guess we just have a perspective. We just, the infrastructure plays to us are actually like the picks and shovels that are in the short term that can be generating revenues and Hey you soon.
[00:29:24] It's like those energy companies that are part of the overall infrastructure that like, those would probably be the biggest companies like we've ever seen or asteroid mining or like stuff like that is that's not investible right now in our minds, but. They can be. But we just we think mine's probably a little too far away right now to invest in, but
[00:29:45] Tim Chrisman: yeah, especially cause I don't know what the time horizon is for Explorer one, but a lot of venture funds it's less than seven years is when you need to have.
[00:29:54] The exit close out, never going to get their money back.
[00:29:57] Daniel Kleinmann: Yes. Ours is a, or is this 10 [00:30:00] years? But we, yeah, you're exactly right. Like you typically want to drive her turn within a seven-year horizon and that's why we're super mindful about timelines and the new space economy. And that's why we've built or trying to build a portfolio that's diversified across these different verticals because a lot of them have.
[00:30:18] Different risk return and timelines that allow us to on average generate rates, potential returns in a shorter.
[00:30:28] Tim Chrisman: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. I'm told that's what I'm supposed to do with my retirement portfolio. The beanie babies in my closet say a different story. Pretty sure they're coming back.
[00:30:38] Oh, that would be good. That's what needs to happen?
[00:30:45] Daniel Kleinmann: Lesbians the babies. Could you, yeah.
[00:30:49] Tim Chrisman: Yeah. That's a good idea. All right. I've got to write this down.
[00:30:52] All we're going to talk about aliens, not beanie babies, but this worked out.
[00:30:58] That's good. Yeah, [00:31:00] no, it was a, it was great having you on your work coming up on time, but is there anything we didn't talk about that would be, cool and interesting to jump on.
[00:31:08] Daniel Kleinmann: I think anyone who's like into space check out what's happening in I like the Starship lawn sites in Texas with this whole star should being built.
[00:31:19] It's I think it's gonna really change the way that humanity evolves and that we become able to access space and. I just want to give like huge shout outs and credits to Elon Musk for everything MySpace and all the amazing, incredible folks at space X and the folks at blue origin that are pushing them and all the other private space companies that are just competing away.
[00:31:51] I just think like it's, I think it's part of a grander picture to benefit humanity. Whether it be an insurance [00:32:00] policy to have another place we can live, or if it's to drive, launch costs down low enough that allow us to, move a lot of the stuff that isn't really good for earth to space.
[00:32:13] And that's really like the basis vision. Let's move landfills to orbit. Let's move everything with a high carbon forbid for open. Now you can only do that once the unit economics makes sense, but I think let's just keep going towards that goal. We'll be in a good position. Oh
[00:32:31] Tim Chrisman: yeah. No of star ship is able to bring things down under a hundred dollars a kilo.
[00:32:35] It starts making sense to shoot some ex hazardous trash into the sun.
[00:32:40] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah, exactly. I'm just, I'm hoping that Maybe they start like weighing us as we go up and then there
[00:32:49] Tim Chrisman: we go. Pay. Yeah. I going to go lose some weight.
[00:32:52] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. Probably paying a hundred bucks.
[00:32:57] Tim Chrisman: Exactly. There we go. People are going to be like [00:33:00] from wrestling in high school.
[00:33:02] I'm cutting 10 pounds before I waited for my flight
[00:33:09] Daniel Kleinmann: for three days.
[00:33:12] Tim Chrisman: That's right. Yup. Yeah. Hopefully they don't calculate how much fuel they need based on the weigh ins the day before, because it's going to be, it's going to be a hundred pounds off.
[00:33:26] Daniel Kleinmann: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate the time. And this is awesome platform. Congrats on everything you're doing here. This is super cool. Yeah.
[00:33:34] Tim Chrisman: Thank you, Daniel. It's it was great chatting with you and can't wait to see what you guys are doing over there and yeah, what's coming next. Thanks
[00:33:43] Daniel Kleinmann: you too.